Originally Posted by Alesis

And thats the 3rd guilds fault, because they didnt pay enough dues apparently. A reasonable chance isnt really possible though, if like on my server, you have say, 3-4 guilds (I dont know really, but we have some good crews on Unrest who I think have a shot) capable of killing the thing, and your in one of say 5 younger hungrier guild with casual play requirements that would love a chance to kill the thing, or at least try it, but when you show up to pull it, you find 3 guilds there with kill experience racing to pull it out from the noses of each other so they can fuck the guild next to them. Its just a retarded system.

What happens is the guild with the most practice gets to lock down the mob MOST of the time, and the 2nd place dudes get the scraps. If a 3rd place guild is lucky enough, they MIGHT get a shot at pulling the thing a few times in 6 months, and if theyre lucky they can kill it before one of the bigger fish comes and ganks thier attempt to learn the thing.

That leaves 3, maybe 4 guilds on my server with no hope of ever seeing that content, ever. O yeah, sorry, I forgot, thats thier fault. They shoulda tried harder. Why werent you there from the begining? Why werent you there first to practice until we came and took it away?
Gimps!

An Instance solves this, plain and simple, to bring this back to the original topic.

I guess id be arguing for keeping it the way it is, if I had everyone else locked out of the fight too. The "haves" and the "have nots" syndrome I guess.

You dont see George W. Bush giving a fuck about the have nots, because hes a have. Those of us who could, but dont have the chance, want to do what those of us who could, and had the chance to refine the technique, can do. We are whiny posers, and need to manage our time in game more efficently, I understand that now.

/shrug

Ironicly, I get like 2-3 tells a day from all sorts of different people on my server who are like "I saw what you said on eq2 flames, and your right really, but arguing with the "haves" is pointless." And you know what? Theyre right! The sense of entitlement that the top of the food chain carries with it will never, ever let those cats understand that some of us would like a chance to check out that content too, even if our level of "in game dedication" wont let us. I remember in EQ1 when you came up on say, The Avatar of War, and it was camped and being pulled, your scouts hit the ground running looking for the next one, and you let the guy who got thier first do his thing, maybe leaving an alt there to make sure they got it killed before giving up. Not so in this game. This game, you fuck each other over, with no respect, spit on the corpse of the mob you just pulled out from the other guy, and tell him "better luck next time bitch".

You have opened my eyes. Im gonna get off my ass, stop paying attention to so many of these "real world" responsabilities, and get my priorities in order. Ill hire someone to come and teach me better time management skills, tell the management team at work I cant be bothered with any more late nights, get my wife to stop nagging about all the household chores, and just focus on what I need to so that I can experience this content. EQ2 and RoK.

I gotta figure out how it is I dont have all this uberness on lockdown in 3 hours played a week. I must need an EQ2 tutor or something.

Originally Posted by Alesis

Why is that? because the logic of the opposing side is "We limit you from content because we can? We bar you from content because your weak? We limit you from content because if we have more playtime than you, we deserve it? Becaause half the fun of the content is competing for and taking it away from someone else?" The logic is flawed, and seems like schoolyard bullying imo. Why is it fun to take away something from someone else? Because you cant do that in real life? I would understand that honestly. Your idea is that I blatently ignore this logic, which to me, seems downright illogical.

This is a FUCKING VIDEO GAME. Your ability to kill shit before someone else can doesnt give you the right to effectivly cockblock 1000s of other players from what you guys yourselves call "the best content in the game".

If you dont like the fact that no matter what point you argue, an instance solves this, then sorry, fuck off. I didnt say you guys werent at the top of the foodchain, I just said some of us would like to try that content out too, and HOLY FUCKING SHIT did the shit storm hit the fan. "Fuck you n00b, its ours! You want it, come and get it, and good luck bitch, cause we just LOVE to fuck over everyone who tries!" is what I hear. "Its a competition!" to which i reply "Competition is PvP" and all the sudden im a hater. You pussies dont wanna compete over shit, you wanna bully your way to the top.

To the uber end game, you get to have your mobs, and it doesnt matter, but to the top end of the middle of the food chain, an instance lets us see that content too, and thats as simple as it gets.

Sit around and tell yourselves your entitled to domination all you want, my point all along is instancing this shit opens it up for everyone to experience. But that just makes your nuts creep up into your belly, because without the ability to take that content away from other people, you become just another player, nothing special, nothing uber.

---
Gunthor,

Quit reading my posts mother fucker, I dont care. I dont know you, and until my account gets banned on these forums, Ill continue to state that the idea of contested mobs is fucking stupid imo, and breeds an elitest, dipshit attitude by the top 24 fuckwads on a server, who imo, are only elite cause they got to practice that content first.

You dont like what I got to say, check out the quote at the bottom of my sig, bitch. You think I put it there because I thuoght it was funny? or because I meant it?

If the sig is to confusing for you, let me clear it up for you a bit.

Fuck YOU, personally Gunthor, in your mothers mouth, with an infected 3rd world cock. I hope you die of ghonorea you arrogant elitest wind bag. I hope your children are hit by a drunk driver who was getting a blow job from your father. I sincerely wish you would die to an intestinal hemorage brought upon you by being sodomized by a well hung mule, who was infected with syphilis, you fucking dick smoking, child raping douche bag.

And guess what? I dont think youll care what I just said, any more than I give a flying rat fuck about your whiny "we deserve it!" mantra you keep mumbling over and over.

Next time you wanna insult me, I expect more effort sweetheart.

And you know what else? I bet you read this, and reply too.

Originally Posted by Alesis

This is a FUCKING VIDEO GAME. Your ability to kill shit before someone else can doesnt give you the right to effectivly cockblock 1000s of other players from what you guys yourselves call "the best content in the game".

If you dont like the fact that no matter what point you argue, an instance solves this, then sorry, fuck off.


---
Gunthor,

Quit reading my posts mother fucker, I dont care. I dont know you, and until my account gets banned on these forums, Ill continue to state that the idea of contested mobs is fucking stupid imo, and breeds an elitest, dipshit attitude by the top 24 fuckwads on a server, who imo, are only elite cause they got to practice that content first.

You dont like what I got to say, check out the quote at the bottom of my sig, bitch. You think I put it there because I thuoght it was funny? or because I meant it?

If the sig is to confusing for you, let me clear it up for you a bit.

Fuck YOU, personally Gunthor, in your mothers mouth, with an infected 3rd world cock. I hope you die of ghonorea you arrogant elitest wind bag. I hope your children are hit by a drunk driver who was getting a blow job from your father. I sincerely wish you would die to an intestinal hemorage brought upon you by being sodomized by a well hung mule, who was infected with syphilis, you fucking dick smoking, child raping douche bag.

Originally Posted by Alesis

This is a FUCKING VIDEO GAME. Your ability to kill shit before someone else can doesnt give you the right to effectivly cockblock 1000s of other players from what you guys yourselves call "the best content in the game".

Originally Posted by Gaige

Exactly. SOE needs to add more contested content to the game, not less.

Originally Posted by Caswydian

Ok, how much? What role should contested content play in the overall progression of the game?

Right now, contested raid mobs are far above what most players will ever experience, and are effectively removed from overall gameplay. Aside from a handful of guilds, no one really cares about contested raid encounters. How should this be changed?

Would you support doing something like making the prismatic raid encounters all contested?

What about having access to instances require killing contested?

Should participation in contested encounters be effectively forced upon guilds which wish to progress? If so, this will likely cause resentment among many players, and lead to more disputes requiring CSR intervention. This means more CS costs and fewer players. What financial incentive is there for SOE to increase the use of contested encounters?

Originally Posted by ScareCrow144

People who like raiding want rewards equal to their effort invested in the game.

Originally Posted by Caswydian

Are raiders the only ones deserving of rewards equal to the effort they put in to the game? How is raiding effort greater than soloing or grouping effort? Raiding has simply become the 'best' style of gameplay not because it is inherently harder or demands more from players, but because the developers have decided to favor one style of play over the others. Not surprisingly, those who favor this style of play are going to fight tooth and nail to protect their exalted status. However, this position is essentially arbitrary, like being born with the right color skin or in the right chunk of land. Raiders, as the saying goes, were born on third base but think they hit a triple.



So it's not enough just to have the best items, you have to have someone else denied those items? Of course, player ability is defined solely by raiding - a solo or group player is, by definition, inferior to a raider regardless of any objective understanding of the game. in other words, player ability is a function of play style, not vice versa. given such a weak foundation for the position they enjoy, it's no wonder raiders get so defensive whenever their playstyle is questioned. They know they have no real justification for the rewards they claim.

As others have noted, seeing another guild defeat an encounter, and getting access to the parse of such a fight is enough to defeat that encounter. To me, this indicated how little real skill is involved in raiding. It's more important to get your AOE timers set up properly and learn the script than it is to have particularly skilled players. Following instructions seems to be the primary virtue of the raider. Is reducing yourself to little more than an automaton, moving in when ACT tells you and moving out when ACT tells you, and curing trauma when ACT tells you really worth of being called skill at all? It's only one step away from ACT moving your character in, and ACT moving your character out and ACT curing trauma. Yet we are supposed to believe this is the pinnacle of skill in an MMO?