Tholar

i think we should call mental doctor for alesis, or he is just mentally defective, who knows, in any case, this post is beyond all retardness...

Malacai

Pagansaint, I’m not entirely sure if this was directed at my post, but I’ll respond as if it is. The intent of the toy spoof, failed or not in your opinion, was to illustrate (in a humorous way) that the toy was 1) as absurd as the OP’s original idea/question that since only a portion of the EQ2 community kills contested that there should not be contested or perhaps they should be moved to instances to allow a greater portion of the population to enjoy them, and 2) to point out (in my opinion) how silly the idea is of moving “contested” epics into instanced zones. This idea has been posted by the OP and from others supporting his position, even though the OP later implies that he didn’t suggest instanced epic contested mobs (contradiction in terms btw). When in fact, this was a suggestion to support and conclude his thoughts in the original post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manratten This to me seems self defeating. If I am coding content for the game, I am looking at satisfying the needs/goals of a bunch of people. Realizing that Contested Epic stuff is likely to be seen by an extremely small few, why waste any resources whatsoever on it? Wouldn't I better be off coding that same kind of encounter, and make it an instance, and likely 10 times (or more) people are going to get use out of it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manratten Well, it was funny and all, but actually didn't have anything to do with what the OP said

By suggesting that contested epics perhaps should be moved into “instances” you are asking that these epics be made available to everyone and I’m assuming the same encounter or easier but with similar rewards. As has been stated in earlier posts, the heart of this issue is the challenge/risk vs. reward (e.g. the more difficult the challenge the bigger the reward) and the fact that they are contested in itself is one of the biggest challenge factors, in that yes, a limited number of people will kill these mobs (as it should be). I think it’s safe to say that the design of epic contested is working as intended.

The argument that contested should be removed from the game because only a relatively small percentage of the population utilizes them is very narrow-minded. If SOE used this logic, they should delete a slew of game features, such as crafting writs, arena combat, or any number of other features that are not used by everyone (or the majority). If we applied this flawed logic to life outside EQ2, opera shouldn’t exist since only a limited number of people experience it (because they have the desire to do-so), or every doctor that is a specialist in a specific field should drop that specialization because only a limited number of people will ever utilize their services otherwise.

The argument that everyone should have the opportunity to kill contested is pointless, because everyone does have this opportunity. Whether they choose to take it is completely at their own discretion (hence the cracks about expecting epic rewards for little or no effort, which is likely insulting to almost anyone who enjoys raiding contested). This argument is analogous to saying Joe, who sits in a dump of an apartment watching the “Price is Right” and collecting unemployment deserves a mansion in Hollywood and a fleet of sports cars because a small portion of the population has them (why shouldn’t Joe have them?...because he didn’t earn those things.)

In the end, SOE will do what’s best for SOE. Based on this thread, I would venture to guess that there are a lot of people (myself included) that think contested epics work exactly as intended and SOE would probably agree. One of the best things about games like EQ2 is the diversity in what you can do and achieve. If SOE starts to remove or alter content based simply on a majority consensus, we’d be on a slippery slope where eventually the game would consist of pushing two or three buttons, wandering around a boring/meaningless landscape, where everyone had essentially the same gear and skills, and where the experience would be identical (or nearly) to anyone else in the world playing.

As far as not posting until page 45 (if your reference was to my first post, it was on page 44 btw), I personally have just recently started visiting this forum and catching up on threads that interest me. That fact does nothing to disprove or invalidate anyone’s thoughts or opinions. Safe journeys.

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Just as in the never-ending struggle within nature to maintain balance, we also endure an internal conflict to maintain equilibrium within ourselves. Striving to find the balance between, Chaos and Order... Destruction and Restoration... Power and Limitation... The Material and Oblivion... Although a benevolent heart beats within my chest, it is forever shrouded by a furious storm...That stands ready to push the tilting scales of the world back toward neutrality.

Illuminator

Ah, so you mean to say that bad things will happen if they chase the money by actually focusing on giving most customers what they want. Amazing.

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Bow down before the one you serve. You're going to get what you deserve.

Crychtonn - Bylar

As long as I knew I could use my entry to go play blackjack, craps or the multiple other games available and I knew that was how the poker tourny worked you wouldn't hear a peep from me. All this information is available on how the game works and that the game includes certain types of encounters. It wouldn't be the casino / SOE's fault or the players playings fault that some people ignored that information and still decided to pay and enter the game. It'd be that persons fault for choosing to get involved with a game they did not like.

The bottom line is contested encounters have been part of EQ2 since launch. Anyone (Alesis) that decided to pay to play this game knew this or didn't bother to take the time to know what they were paying for. In either event that person made the mistake and crying about it after the fact is just being a spoiled entitlement driven brat.

Twist and turn it to your hearts desire. It'll never change the fact the game was the game when you decided to pay for it.

Jalathan

I think the biggest issue with contested is there is little to no choice to factor in. For example, if an avatar is up, it is the only avatar up, thus the top guild has no choice to make on which contested they wish to take out.

That would be a way they could open up contested so that multiple major mobs would be up at a time (or could be) thus forcing people to make a decision on which one they want to go for.

For example, the avatar of war pops and at the same time, the avatar of valor and avatar of hate also pop (or reasonably close together). That gives three major avatars up at any giving time, giving more chances for guilds to learn the strats and such and less ability for one guild to lock them all down as the guild can only be in one place at a time.

To use the poker analogy above, it would be like having a choice of there venues to pursue, thus you make a choice and that leaves other poker players to attend the other two.

Now, what I'm not saying is guarenteeing that three will be up every pop. It may be one, it may be 5/6 of them. Make it random how many will pop at a given time. Also, make the timers a bit more random, as I understand (I've never killed one in a current tier) you can pretty much set a clock to them to time them. That gives the advantage to the one who killed it first, since they will be the ones who know when the timer started. If that isn't the case, toss it out as a bad rumor ;)

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Paladin of Antonia Bayle

Manratten

Malacai:
I thought your post was informative, (and in reality, the exact kind of response I was looking for), but actually, I think in some things you got me and Pagansaint confused. Likely, this came about, because Pagan was himself/herself confused.

In actuality, Pagansaint had jumped my chops about the 45 pages stuff. He somehow didn't realize that the original poster was in fact, me. (It did however provide me with a source of amusement) I fully agree that 3 seconds, 10 minutes, or 45 pages does nothing to change the argument. Keep in mind this was Pagan's view, not mine.

I certainly never asked for anything to be made easier, or have similar rewards, nothing of the kind. Alot of this thread has been spent by others arguing against/for that, and again, I didn't say anything like that.

As for me not suggesting they be made instanced, I'm not following you. That was my original assertation....where did I say otherwise? I DID say I was fine if things never changed, wouldn't be the end of the world one way or the other to me, but, I do wonder why bother.

As for the analogy to Opera....I think you making my point for me. Generally, they DON'T bother. If you don't live in a major city (and sometimes, even if you do), go check out the local Opera scene. Of course, it won't exist, because, it is not worth the bother for such a small market. However, the Starbucks and McDonald's market...that's worth the bother!!

I don't know the numbers on how many peoople killed contested. I don't know the numbers on how many people at SoE have to not work on projectx as they work on contested. But...I wonder.

Gage

Most of the contested encounters since launch were/are designed by one guy.

There may be a few that he doesn't do, but I wouldn't say its many.

I'm pretty sure, the majority of his job, is to design raids (both instanced and contested).

Other devs mess with raids here and there, but it isn't their primary job.

AFAIK at least.

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Malacai

I disagree, you are taking a generalization used in the example and altering it to support your point. From what I've read, you are advocating that opera (or contested) should not exist at all because the demand for it may be limited (sounds similar to what you are saying about contested), rather than what you imply above; that opera does exist, just confined to larger cities generally.

Although the demand for (in this example) opera may be lower than some entertainment, it does exist. Opera may only be found in select locations but people will travel to those areas to see it (if that's what they are looking for in entertainment) whether there is an opera house in their smaller home town or not is irrelevant. Just like those that want to kill contested, they will take the actions necessary to do it.

__________________

Just as in the never-ending struggle within nature to maintain balance, we also endure an internal conflict to maintain equilibrium within ourselves. Striving to find the balance between, Chaos and Order... Destruction and Restoration... Power and Limitation... The Material and Oblivion... Although a benevolent heart beats within my chest, it is forever shrouded by a furious storm...That stands ready to push the tilting scales of the world back toward neutrality.

methulah

At the detriment of a very vocal and important minority? Yes. Look at every parallel.

Illuminator

Important in what way? Is this vocal and important minority the reason an 8GB MMORPG in 2007 can't be as fulfilling as a 4MB RPG in 1993?

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Bow down before the one you serve. You're going to get what you deserve.