The waaaa-factor - Page 8

oxyl · 12-13-2007, 09:43 PM

Well 24 people deserve better loots for thier time, organization, skill ect over some one who solos. I have a problem with this theory becuase in a raid you have 7 to 24 people attacking one mob. If you cant beat this mob, you may change tactics, classes. When you solo a mob its all or nothing ........... the soloer can really only change tactics and these tactics are all on them. ~~~Lillin

People do deserve better loot for their time, organization, skill etc. over someone who solos. If you think it's not all or nothing for the raid party to kill the mob in question than you are out to fucking lunch. Sure, you can make an unwise decision on your own and kill yourself - none's the wiser. Fuck up in a raid and kill 23 other people and see what happens. If you can't beat the mob, try again [i]in 5 or so days[i], not in 20 mins while you wait for a solo mob to spawn.

For those who are bitching about better drops on raid mobs, get a fucking clue. Do 24 fabled items drop after the kill is made? Do we all call home better geared after every raid, enlarging our e-peens by each instance? For those who aren't raiding 5 days a week you can wait for fucking ages for something you can use to drop. I'm a semi-casual (as in raid the weekends and sometimes during the week) raider and do i cry foul when i see another toon with some great gear on the boat? Fuck no - I appreciate the peice and the effort it took to aquire it, and aspire to grab one myself. Grow a fucking pair or STFU.

Besides, if you primarily solo or group you don't need that gear to do it, and if you still can't do it than that's your problem. Do you think that people who raid full time spend much time soloing for christ's sake? And when they do, that the loot they aquire is important? The gear they have is the gear they need to get their respective jobs done, not yours.

pagansaint · 12-13-2007, 10:18 PM

Lillin, you might want to reconsider what you are talking about, because if you think about what is actually going on, it is thought out.

I used GW as an example to illustrate the ability of companies to operate with less than WoW or even EQ2 type monthly income figures successfully while providing customer support, monthly and sometimes weekly updates, and expanding gameplay as the game progresses.

Their resources, admit it or not, for in game mechanics was just as in depth as the resources needed for the mechanics of any traditional style MMO.

They were and are able to keep costs down through having smaller databases, less overall content and resources dedicated than true MMOs, the ones with solo, group and raiding with public, overland zones and questing and the inherent scripting involved.

It is a very successful model for the type of game an all raiding game would be. Many instanced zones, just like GW; some shard/public areas like towns, just like GW; and with the addition of a few areas for contested types to spawn with the same area and resource devotion as a town would take you would have the entirety of the game.

Alesis · 12-13-2007, 10:32 PM

1) Arguing with Pagansaint is like trying to wrestle a puddle of water- fucking pointless. Itll always wind up with you all wet and confused, and not quite sure wtf the point was to begin with.

2) If you try to pull the EQ2 isnt hardcore, its just a storybook with a built in calculator card, youll get 10 dudes who will jump up and tell you your an idiot, because they know more about the game than you ever could. They will tell you that beating a scripted AI that is designed to have holes in it big enough to beat is hardcore, and to prove it, theyll claim they figured it out within 15 minutes the day it was released, and now farm it 3 times a week in 2 hour sessions. They will however fail to mention that they watched someone else develop the strat, then copy/pasted it to thier raid force using tools that were not originaly implemented into the game engine. If you point out that thier web sites have "mandatory" 5-7 day a week, 4-5+ hour play sessions, just for raiding, they will tell you "well it just SAYS that, we actually only play like 2-3 hours a session." If you point out they have on call lists for 24 hour a day contested domination, they will tell you they never actually use them, they just kill that uber content when it HAPPENS to be up on thier normal play schedule.

3) If you try to point out that EQ1/DAOC/UO is a hardcore game that would truly test them, theyll tell you to stfu and go play it then. This is thier dollhouse, and theyll do what they want.

4) If you tell them to go to Nagafein where even thier ass is contested, and that would be a test of thier skill, they tell you to fuck off because they like thier nice, comfy safe spot at the top. Putting all these top end cock suckers on the same server wouldnt work for them, because they dont like competition, they like domination. Its much easier to be a big fish in a little pond. If it was really a competition, theyd all be chomping at the bit to go play on the same server as NPU, so they could have a shot at the title.

5) Risk vs Reward is a stupid arguement. When soloing, you dont have a healer to back you, a mezzer to make your passage safer, or a scout to tell you whats around the next corner. You got you and your skills, and alot of dieing to figure it out. Whats the difference between you dieing 10 times ina zone to figure how to get to or kill a mob and a raid dieing 10 times in a zone to figure out how to get to and or kill a mob? Nothing. If anything, solo is harder, because theres noone there to bail you out when you fuck up, and noone to blame when the shit hits the fan. You can try to convince the world that because the mob had 4 million hps and it took 24 people to generate the DPS to kill it that its ahrder, but if you take a solo mob and give it an equal amount of hps based upon the single toon, its the same thing. Is it harder to coordinate 24 people to do that? maybe, but in my experience, its more like 1 dude who has a clue, and everyone else just needs to know how to play "follow the leader".

-----
I think soloers do deserve better super end game instances, where big risk = big reward, just like middle class raiders deserve shots at end game contested mobs, even if you have to instance that shit.

You think this is a competition? Fuck you, this is fucking care bear, as difficult as reading a book. This game is designed to be a time sink where he with the most time invested wins, and thats all it is.

You wanna be hardcore? Delete EQ2 Maps, delete ACT, delete Vent, and play it old school, EQ1 release style. THEN, maybe just THEN, I might tell you your PvE game can be considered hardcore. Until then though, your just a care bear, cry baby bitch, with alot of free time trying to convince the rest of us nerds that your nerd dick is bigger.

You think your hardcore and play EQ2? Fuck you pussy, if you dont play in a game where your ass is contested too, like Nagafein, then your reading a novel, and thats as difficult as it gets. I love EQ2, its an awesome game, and I love raiding, but hardcore it aint.

High end solo achievement should get high end reward, just like high end raiding should get high end reward.

PS: Im a raider, in a middle class raid guild, who just joined after soloing for a few months because he thought the top tier raid guild he was in was full of ego maniacal self glorfying fucktards with amazingly huge egos, and who just couldnt stand listening to them tell each other how enormous thier nerd dicks where, and said so, which pissed them off to no end.

Exeugi · 12-13-2007, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alesis

<snip> Itll always wind up with you all wet and confused, and not quite sure wtf the point was to begin with. <big snip>

Wait, you masturbate while arguing with Pagansaint? Jesus fucking christ dude..

pagansaint · 12-13-2007, 10:56 PM

Alesis is just pissed that he can't reply in the other thread because if he doesn't man up in his response there he knows he will be called on it again.

And manning up would entail him to admit one of the two contradicting things he said was a lie that he gave out that is perpetuating the whole ordeal causing this thread and the other one.

So he came here, posted some more drivel, and is trying to get this thread going like the other one.

Pathological liar, shunned wannabe, and tantrum thrower.

He hides it all admittedly well behind a sheer deluge of bullshit in his posts though.

EDIT:

Alesis PS statement comes from the fact that he threw a tantrum over being yelled at by a raid leader for being one of the apps that was screwing up a raid for a guild.

So take what you do from him with a grain of salt. He is just pissed and looking for something to lash out at.

Contested mobs and the people who kill them are the target lately.

pagansaint · 12-13-2007, 11:08 PM

Alesis enough with trying to transfer your double talk, whiny, point eluding posts unto me.

Man up you punk ass loser.

Go respond, succinctly mind you, none of that double talk deluge of text posting, on the other thread.

Or

Keep running from thread to thread trying to down on me like a little bitch.

Your choice.

Daedalus · 12-13-2007, 11:11 PM

I missed how when I played my guard a loooooooong time ago, that the vendor sold stuff was actually considered an upgrade, Apprentice level spells were considered the norm, rares were the biggest pain in the ass to get for Adept III's, and having good gear actually meant something.

If they could at least try to move a bit towards that again (in the sense of creating progression when you upgrade) then I might consider playing again. Then again, that'd be assuming that there'd be more challenging content

Sheya · 12-14-2007, 04:15 AM

Raiding is the pathetic excuse for developers to find a way out at providing content in a timely manner.
Raiding didn't exist as a concept till someone charged Nagafen in a wtf moment some years ago along with a bunch of buddies, there it was born.
Now, I don't hate raiders per se, I even think the activity could be fun if done in a different way (and eq2 has imo the worst raiding of all time, but it's because of a totally fucked up combat system).

I just don't get the "there is nothing to do at the level cap" bullshit: if devs would make 1 group content that would rape you over and over, and it'd take 1 month per dungeon to figure it out, it would be the same fucking thing, instead they prefer to put up a big mofo with a load of hp, put in some gear checks and leave you all wanking on the parses. Most of the time there isn't even a script worth this name to beat.

Uyaem · 12-14-2007, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheya

I just don't get the "there is nothing to do at the level cap" bullshit: if devs would make 1 group content that would rape you over and over, and it'd take 1 month per dungeon to figure it out, it would be the same fucking thing

I disagree very much, because the more people you "need", the more choices you have in designing an encounter or in setting up your force. Six people is just too few to allow for huge variation. Not saying that only 24 can be good. Maybe a group of 10.

Also, in terms of EQ2 raiding I find raiding in RoK to be a lot more interesting than EoF, even if most encounters are easier they provide more variety (not the old ever-repeating EoF one-AoE-plus-X-adds-after-Y%-or-minutes-mob).

Sheya · 12-14-2007, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uyaem

I disagree very much, because the more people you "need", the more choices you have in designing an encounter or in setting up your force. Six people is just too few to allow for huge variation. Not saying that only 24 can be good. Maybe a group of 10.

Also, in terms of EQ2 raiding I find raiding in RoK to be a lot more interesting than EoF, even if most encounters are easier they provide more variety (not the old ever-repeating EoF one-AoE-plus-X-adds-after-Y%-or-minutes-mob).

That's another often used claim: more people can lead to more options, which is a moot point if the options are left unused. More options going from one to two groups I could see, from two to four, not really. Also having a player multitasking is "better" than giving a group multitasking if you want to measure the complexity for each raid member.

As long as you can field more than 1 tank and 1 healer, you can add as much strategy as you want, controlling one event with a group and one second event with a second group is as easy or as hard as controlling 4 events with 4 groups, with the exception that 4 events will lag you a lot more.
Since you are fielding 12 persons, you can find 12 different things to be done at any given moment, it doesn't need to be always tank+3healers+agrotransfer+trainofdps in mob's face.
Every group you add raises the possibilities that someone will fuck up, that's the only "challenge" left. Figure out the script? Monkeys can do it, given enough tries.

There is another game that designed awesome encounters for 40 players, very complex and hard scripts that EQ2 wouldn't be able to support, because lag would kill you, because combat and UI visualizations would not support it, etc.
In essence EQ2 is "skill-capped" by its technical limitations and there is nothing you can do to change that.

Add the fact SoE thinks that challenge is equal to mobs hitting like trucks, (while that should only be a gear check) and you have the whole picture (this is proven by the 1999-2007 raid history).