Dystrax

LOL pulling out the restatement. what was the case? the 2 ships peerless?

Raffles v. Wichelhaus - Wikipedia

i totally wanted to say something to this effect but i didnt want to be called a "welfare internet lawyer".

firamas

except that (a) is rendered null due to the original intentions being so ambiguous. and who is to decide what constitutes (b)? what's the harm in allowing multiple mirrors to be used per person? rather than paying an AA respec merchant a few gold/plat each time you want to respec, you're essentially paying a one-time fee (per spec) of 50-100p on the open market to obtain a mirror.

if they're worried about something even slightly affecting plat inflation in that situation they can 1) implement other forms of removing coin from the economy and 2) stop having raid mobs drop 20p each.

Dystrax

well what LFG said doesnt actually apply here because there was no agreement between SOE and the players about these mirrors. they are basically a gift.

LFG

Man, that was from memory, a first year contracts class from long ago.

__________________

LFG

I believe the principles of offer and acceptance apply to gifts also, don't they?

__________________

Dystrax

offer and acceptance are 2 elements of an enforceable agreement, along with consideration and a couple others i can't remember.

mutual mistake is a defense to contract formation. first, you must determine whether the elements of a contract are present prima facie. in the casse of a mutual mistake, there appears to be an offer and an acceptance because there is typically some memorialization of the agreement - i.e. a writing. however, although each party was reasonble in their understanding of the material terms during the offer and acceptance process, there was no meeting of the minds bceause each was mistaken about a material term of the contract. therefore there was no valid offer and acceptance of the material terms of the contract. therefore there was no contract and the parties are not bound by its terms.

however, before you even get to defenses against contract formation, the prima facie elements of a contract must be satisfied. when someone gives a gift, there is no consideration therefore there is no contract to begin with, so there is no need to even get to defenses. EDIT: and, as a result, the person receiving the gift has no contractual recourse against the person giving the gift because there is no contract. thus, we can cry all we want but no matter what it doesnt matter, SOE is not contractually bound to do what they say in previous patch notes.

firamas

well we've already established what we thought we were getting

we have now beat to death the semantics of why SoE is not bound to give us anything

so the useless legalese bullshit is out of the way...

...and now lets focus a little more on the specifics of why we should or should not be allowed to use multiple mirrors. cite sources. present pros and cons. i'll expect your report by next Friday.

Dystrax

but i personally dont care to have more than 2 builds for any of my toons, so I dont give a shit...but anyways:

probably the strongest argument would point to the people who reasonably interpreted the patch notes to say they could have a bunch of mirrors so they purchased mutliple mirrors only to find out they wasted plat. although the money spent on these extra mirrors could be reimbursed, this puts the burden on the player to petition and deal with the lovely customer service of SOE when the player did nothing wrong - they simply made a reasonable interpretation and relied on it to their detriment. SOE, on the other hand, was in the best position to avoid this situation by making clear statements about how these items would function. Nevertheless, SOE only issued ambiguous statements and players relied on those statements. because of this, SOE should allow the use of more than one mirror.

quasigenx

Wrong. People assumed, wrongly. That does not entitle them to anything. Despite your assertion, the patch notes were not that ambiguous that a reasonable person would would assume beyond a doubt that you were allowed more than two builds.

The easiest solution for SoE would be to not tell us anything, either way ahead of time or in the patch notes. I for one would rather have more communication, with the caveat that shit can change.

__________________

Dystrax

i was just making the strongest argument i could think of. this is the counter argument. who cares, really, its not like its up to us, lol.