Hoss

I think Devs should play the game, and I am glad they do and its also good they they like to raid. But, the second anyone finds out they are a dev, they should have to quit. Let them re-roll and try again *if* they can keep their mouths shut the next time. I have no problem with them taking the known dev toon and raiding more casually too.

What makes it a hardcore guild? Simple. Any guild with a server first kill is a WW guild. In fact, bar them from being in or raiding with a guild thats even attempting a server first kill. This way, they can get their raiding fix, they can get their competitive raiding fix if they can keep their fucking mouths shut, and lower level toons won't be forgotten as much since the big mouthed devs (you know who I'm talking to) will have to re-roll often and will be seeing the lower level content again and again and again.

Arduros said we could find the devs in hardcore guilds if we asked around. So I am asking around right now. List who they are, what class/race they play what server they are on and what guild they are in.

I personally only know of one dev that plays, but all I know is his class/race. Don't even know if his forum name is his toon name.


-h

__________________
Let us Pray the Pimp's Prayer.
Lord, please pray for the soul of this bitch and guide my pimp hand and make it strong Lord, so that she might learn a hoe's place.

Amen

Hoss

Damn I shoulda read the whole thread before that last post.

Can we make a forum rule that when you bring up old shit, you have to either explain it or give a link? UT issue? Is that university of Texas, or University of Tennessee?

Wait, I know this. Its either Stock Broker or Giggilo. Dammit, drawing a blank.

So, socializing = calling someone a dumbass? Nice.

Yeah, same here. Last job I had, our standard greeting was flipping each other the bird. A heart-felt "Fuck YOU" was the preferred method for signaling the end of any heated exchange.

Muds Kicked ass. I think I'm gunna go back to playing them. Hrm, I remember a coder named Marcus on a couple of them. Which muds did ya play? On second though, that couldn't have been you because Marcus never gave me shit. He just liked to follow me around and watch how quickly I fucked up his areas.


-h

__________________
Let us Pray the Pimp's Prayer.
Lord, please pray for the soul of this bitch and guide my pimp hand and make it strong Lord, so that she might learn a hoe's place.

Amen

Mheryl

I see no reason a dev shouldn't be in a raid guild, and as a matter of fact I'm glad some are. Who better to explain a buggy encounter at work the next day?

The problems ensue when you can't keep work and play separate, so if you're a dev who needs to "do favors" for attention and love, then save yourself the trouble. Favors on test and beta are fun, favors in live suck.

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Mheryl 80 Warden/80 Tailor/400 Tinker
Irene 80 Monk/80 Carpenter/400 Transmuter
Sarissa 48 Wiz/80 Alch -- Pieta 32 Pally/80 Prov -- Escalia 42 Illy/80 Sage -- Chali 32 Ranger/80 Woodworker -- Caprisce 62 Necro/80 Jeweler -- Cailent 72 Berserker/80 Armorer -- Errol 64 WS

Kurizo

That kind of reasoning right there is the reason we're in this situation, why don't you go ahead and say, "who better to explain how the encounter works to properly test it since it wasn't done in the first place because the beta process from SOE is worth it's weight in dog shit."

What do you say to that poo flinger?

Davngr

i dont see anything wrong with devs enjoying the game or raiding in guilds.. sure said guild would have an advantage but at the end of the day it's just a game and the fact that devs raid in the same setting that evryone else is to evryones advantage.. and to asume that dev's are cheating is dumb when you think about it.. i mean.. how much fun would it be to just zone into the intance and pawn it or pull the contested and beat it with out effort? it's wouldent be fun.. im sure these said devs that raid sit back and have fun with their guild as they learn the encounter. i cant say this for sure.. but it would suck to just know how to beat evrything.

aduros

How much fun would it be to wipe consistently to a mob when your trying to progress through a zone? Ever been up all night, only to be stuck on the last mob? I know quite a few people that if they had the ability to end the night, they would.

Assuming your guild killed Mayong, how did you find out about Wolfsbane? Was it trial and error?

I don't know about you, but I've used codes and strategy guides before in games before, simply because of the frustration caused by being stuck at one point for hours. Plus some codes are just fun.

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Orochan

Like others have said before, if you TEST SHIT ON BETA ( and/or test server) you DON'T NEED TO TEST SHIT ON LIVE AT ALL ( or as much )

This whole idea of lets play w/ raid guilds on live servers to "Test" our mobs is bullshit.

You don't see console game developers using actual customers to test their game do you? ( after they already spent 50-60 bucks on the game ) They go out and FIND and HIRE testers, which SOE should do.

It's a simple fucking process.

1. New idea for a mob

2. Natural and obivous steps/coding/etc done to implement that mob into a raid/group/solo encounter

3. TESTING OF MOB

4. Final ( ready for live ) version of the mob gets put into game.

5. Maybe ( big fucking maybe ) minor details and/or fixes are made for mob.

Soe goes

1. New idea for mob

2. mob goes into game.

3. 5 patches later mob gets fixed.

4. 6 patches later mob gets fixed again.

5. 10 patches later Mob is now made soloable and drops 5 t8 fabled rewards upon death. 15 minute repop.

Now obviously I'm using sarcasm, but the point is SOE ( and we all know this is true ) can defnlty test some of their shit better then they currently are doing.

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Krontak

Lets play a game, lets go through the list of those that voted for "Yes, devs should be allowed to join raid guilds. Even if their occupation is known. " and count out all the people that are either devs or have known devs in their guilds then see how many people we got left. I'm sure you'll see a pattern develop.

Regarding devs in raid guilds...I really don't give a crap unless of course they are playing on live servers, and do influence play vs. things like contested mobs. If devs are giving guilds the upper hand on contested they can go fuck themselves. That would be highly unethical almost to the point of treading on punishable behavior by SoE. There's a reason most contests are not playable by employees of the companies hosting them. And after all contested is a contest of sorts.

I'll tell ya what though, if the devs in the guilds can honestly tell us they have 0 influence and have had 0 in regards to contested content, then I really don't mind at all, as long as they don't have any input. Once they do, it changes everything. Not only should the people that knew about the unethical behavior, but also the dev that shared the knowledge, should be restricted from gameplay as punishment. Not indefinately, but enough to make them understand what they have done is not acceptable. Its unethical, period.

Manratten

Orochan:
You are certainly right, they can hire more people and test them more, just as they do on console games.

Of course, the flip side of this, is that a typical console game costs $30-$40, and has a play time generally around 40-50hrs. Since most people playing eq2 play that much a week, we are talking $120-$150 a month in fees. People freak out when they raise the fees $1 a year, so pretty sure a raise over $100 would be greeted with some minor issues.

Manratten

On a serious note....what in the world caused this thread anyway? I presume some guild out there got a WW1st, and some other guild didn't, and it was because the strategy was so unbelievably hard to fathom, that no way in the world could anyone have figured it out without a dev's help.

I mean, I realize the fate of the free world relies upon certain guilds getting a WW1st and all, but at least clue me in to what exactly we are talking about.