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Old 12-26-2007, 02:46 PM  
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Default Re: SoE is a Clusterfuck ATM

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Who mentioned bugs ? Exactly the problem is that I say QA and most of the industry presumes its about bugs.


QA is FAR more than that. QA is about controlling the project about change management, about keeping in check the project management and making sure a proper terms of reference is enforced.

In effect, it ensures theres a sound strategy in place from day 1 of a games inception. In actuality it would make sure that the creative ability of the devs and designers were fully realised. Short term and long term it produces continuity.


When I say the industry needs more QA I don't mean it would help with bug finding, I mean it would necessitate proper control over a games development and by that I don't mean controlling the designers and devs, I mean controlling the management processes, so you would get project managers who know what the fuck they are doing instead of doing everything on the fly.
First - I know full well what "QA" is.

Having said that... there are two issues at play:

1) Game bugs

If there are bugs - which I think is a primary concern for players right now - things like the loot tables in KC being out of whack and such... those things are causing player discontent and need to be fixed.

2) Game direction

Game direction comes down to personal taste. This is why I said that "in my opinion" the game has improved vastly - because for me PERSONALLY - the game is now headed in a direction that I find appealing.

If it weren't, I'd simply go play something else.

Your primary concern SEEMS to be that you think the game's direction is misguided, non-existant, whatever - which essentially says "you don't like what you perceive to be the game's direction" OR "what I perceive as your lack of direction is resulting in a product that I have issues with".

That doesn't mean the game's direction is right or wrong though - or even that the product is good, bad, or indifferent - and while I am sure there are people who agree with you, I'm just as certain that there are people who don't.

If you don't like it, you are certainly allowed to voice your discontent - and as devs seem to haunt these forums, here is as good a place as any...

But - and I mean absolutely no offense here - you seem to be swinging a broad scale subjective bat at the entire organization - in a manner that says "because I don't agree what you are doing, what you are doing must be wrong" - rather than perhaps realizing that what they are doing isn't right or wrong - but rather is simply something that may not be for you right now... but may be again at a later date if their thinking comes more in line with your own.

Last edited by Krakks; 12-26-2007 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 12-26-2007, 03:23 PM  
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Default Re: SoE is a Clusterfuck ATM

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Your primary concern SEEMS to be that you think the game's direction is misguided, non-existant, whatever - which essentially says "you don't like what you perceive to be the game's direction" OR "what I perceive as your lack of direction is resulting in a product that I have issues with".


But - and I mean absolutely no offense here - you seem to be swinging a broad scale subjective bat at the entire organization - in a manner that says "because I don't agree what you are doing, what you are doing must be wrong" - rather than perhaps realizing that what they are doing isn't right or wrong - but rather is simply something that may not be for you right now... but may be again at a later date if their thinking comes more in line with your own.

I don't think the games direction is misguided. I think it is constantly changing. EQ2 doesn't evolve, as such a game should, it is forever going from one extreme to the other in direction and content. Witness T7's introduction and compare it to T8's.

Another example is the archery issue previously discussed. I think I picked up that the problem was that the system was designed at T7 and doesn't work past that - ie no scalability and no resilience. No forward thinking or forward planning.


For the record, my criticsm isn't just of SoE, its consistently been presented that the industry as a whole has the same attitudes.


A lot of developer and designer talent is being wasted due to poor management. It doesn't have to be.
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Old 12-26-2007, 06:00 PM  
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Default Re: SoE is a Clusterfuck ATM

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A prime example is the RoK lvl 1-20. Its fair enough making previous content in the same level less rewarding, though it should still be an option. RoK 1-20 makes the entire game level 1-40 almost defunct item wise, because the rewards are so ridiculously good.
1-40 has been defunct as is, RoK just makes it more obvious. When we grind our alts we waste no time trying to quickly pass through deadbeat tiers. The fun gear and fun encounters start in T7.

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The other I'm suggesting, seems to be heading that way, is Green Monster Games (Curt Schilling, Salvatore, Todd et al).
Are you hearing about specifics that we aren't? All I know about GMG is the name and who started it. They could be making single-player porn games and I'd be none the wiser.
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Old 12-26-2007, 06:01 PM  
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Default Re: SoE is a Clusterfuck ATM

SINGLE-PLAYER PORN GAMES!! WTF do I sign up!
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Old 12-26-2007, 06:07 PM  
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Default Re: SoE is a Clusterfuck ATM

I want in Beta.
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Old 12-26-2007, 06:09 PM  
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SINGLE-PLAYER PORN GAMES!! WTF do I sign up!
I'll hold out for the Massively Multiplayer version - At the least, it seems like it would be more interesting - but only if I'm "guilded" with a bunch of women who really ARE women - not guys looking to get stuff from other guys by playing women.
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Old 12-26-2007, 06:11 PM  
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Default Re: SoE is a Clusterfuck ATM

way to ruin the image i envisioned Krakks...now all I see is hairy man breasts
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Old 12-26-2007, 09:46 PM  
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Old 12-27-2007, 09:38 AM  
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1-40 has been defunct as is, RoK just makes it more obvious. When we grind our alts we waste no time trying to quickly pass through deadbeat tiers. The fun gear and fun encounters start in T7.

Its defunct for a lot of people, but not everyone.


i) A large chunk of the playerbase actually enjoys those levels more than endgame. You won't find that demographic represented on these kind of forums, obviously.


ii) What about new players ? Have we accepted that there never will be any ? Any new players going through 1-20 will enjoy that, but for a couple of weeks going through 20-40, they're going to wonder what the heck kind of game can be this dumb. Its not a stretch to think a fair portion of new players will give up on the game because of it. The twist here is that RoK presented the biggest potential draw for new players since the game launched.



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Are you hearing about specifics that we aren't? All I know about GMG is the name and who started it. They could be making single-player porn games and I'd be none the wiser.

I didn't have any inside information; just what is in the public domain about the type of people they are recruiting and their management structure. Check out their website and look at the Team and Jobs section for a small taste of that.


As for Schilling himself, this is a typical quote from him :

I am not getting into this for (fame and money). Those at GMG will operate on a 50-50 profit share with the employees in the company. My goal is to reap the rewards with the people who create it," said Schilling. Schilling went on to say that poor employee treatment is one of the biggest flaws in game industry business models.
"GMG's team of employees will more closely resemble the pride and respect I experienced in my years as a baseball player," he said.




I would bet my house on the game they come up with.
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Old 12-27-2007, 10:09 AM  
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Default Re: SoE is a Clusterfuck ATM

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Its defunct for a lot of people, but not everyone.


i) A large chunk of the playerbase actually enjoys those levels more than endgame. You won't find that demographic represented on these kind of forums, obviously.


ii) What about new players ? Have we accepted that there never will be any ? Any new players going through 1-20 will enjoy that, but for a couple of weeks going through 20-40, they're going to wonder what the heck kind of game can be this dumb. Its not a stretch to think a fair portion of new players will give up on the game because of it. The twist here is that RoK presented the biggest potential draw for new players since the game launched.
Offering a different perspective on the low end game - as I think that I can speak to this.

When the game came out, I leveled a paladin to max (level 50 then) - then I came back this past summer and played a berserker to level 55... between the two, I've come to realize that I don't much like tanking in EQ2 - so I started yet another character, and am now happily playing a level 40 warlock.

I believe that the warlock class will keep me in the game for some time to come - as it "fits" me well - it isn't my ranger from back in EQ (and I really wish someone would recreate that class the way it was in EQ) - but I find it to be an awesome class (for me).

That is all by way of background to say that I've now played 1 - 40 content in EQ2 three times. As a comparator - I have 7 level 65+ toons in WoW.

In terms of "re-leveling" a new character - EQ2 has it all over WoW. Why? Simple - in WoW, once you are past level 20 - everyone flows through the exact same sieve with very little variation. After the first toon, and certainly by the 3rd or 4th... WoW leveling "feels" more like a treadmill to me than a game world - get on, turn on the TV so you don't have to pay attention to what you are doing, and run until you are done. (I have a lot of WoW toons because I have 2 sons who like to play, but don't much like to level... so I leveled them each a horde and alliance avatar so that they could play with me)

In EQ2 - Sony seems to be doing the same as they did in EQ - in that any time new content comes out, content is added for some segment of the already existing game world (level wise).

What it has amounted to for me - is this:

- My Paladin leveled through the original content (naturally)
- My Berserker leveled almost exclusively in EoF content
- My Warlock leveled 1 - 22 in RoK content - and is now doing a mix of original and EoF content

From my perspective - gear at those levels doesn't matter to me. One area giving better exp than another doesn't matter to me. What matters to me - is that there is just SO much varieity of content - so many places to go and see... and they have done what I consider a great job of giving each of them a distinct look and feel.

Beyond that though - I've been playing with a small group of friends (when we all are on at the same time) - so sometimes I am solo questing, and sometimes I am with my group of friends - doing whatever dungeon is appropriate for whatever level we happen to be (with them either on alts that are my level, or mentored down to my level). So far, every night we are all on, there has been some level appropriate dungeon to go blow up.

This, to me, is the absolute beauty of the pre-max EQ2 content - there is too much to do for any one character that levels without turning off exp... and the content is varied - dungeon, overland content, etc...

Throw in the varied quest types: HQ, L&L, Language, collections, etc... and what I think you are saying you see as disjointed - I see as a gold mine of opportunity - a WORLD - to go have fun in.

To me - the way Sony has evolved the content makes the game world (to me) feel large and robust - not disjointed, broken, or "without direction".

Last edited by Krakks; 12-27-2007 at 10:11 AM.
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