Panthera

I understand your point. I see what you are saying. I am just not convinced that approach will work in this industry. I think the game is better served with those close to the product...the gamers that live and breath this stuff like us.

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Panthera

Except for the Web Master, every position requires gaming experience.

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Flight

That is exactly the reaction of the US manufacturing industry to Dr Deming 50 years ago. His approach was mathematical - they thought it couldn't help them. The Japanese embraced his theories and it revolutionized their manufacturing industry. Deming and a small number of other similar Westerners are almost entirely responsible for the growth and success of Japanese industries, ever since. The world would be a massively different place if the West had listened, when they had the chance.




I agree, to an extent. I do think a small number of areas do not have the level of competence within the industry, that exists outside of it.

I used to work for IBM. I went to work with them for Dresdner bank on a couple of projects in London, Spain and Moscow. They offered me six times what I was earning at IBM to stay with them, which was hard to turn down as a family man.

What I've learnt in the ten years since, is that there are a small number of people in the IT world whose competence dwarfs what I had previously believed existed. They, almost without exception, work in the finance industry because they always pay top end to get the best. I'm not talking about creative people, like developers, I'm talking about managers, project managers and people in quality management.

One of the projects I've done more recently, was in a place called Royal Liver Assurance, in the UK. You American folk probably won't have heard of it, but the Liver Buildings in Liverpool are pretty recognizable for most of the UK folk. I normally work from London, but Liverpool is my home town and the buildings are an icon to me. I was supposed to design and implement a corporate wide network, sack most of the staff and replace them, setting up support teams and processes.

What I did, instead, was bring in a small number of friends to work with me for a year and pass on a large part of their skill set to the existing work force. And this is the vision I could see working for the MMORPG industry. A small number of key workers. introducing their skill sets and passing them on. This entire thing would be as an enabler, to allow the existing folk, like developers and designers, to reach their full potential.


As an aside, one of the other big lessons I've learned is to do a job you enjoy and believe in. If I didn't live in the UK I'd have sent a CV to GMG 15 months ago and happily worked a hundred hours a week for a crust and a glass of water...

Rinion

And this ladies and gentlemen is why these games continue to suck and get worse.

You know what console gaming and first generation MMOs didn't have, that we have now?

500,000 screaming ass holes on some internet forum trying to be heard because they think what's best for that is best for all.

Quit taking anyones play times and styles into account and focus on making games that don't suck. Fuck johny average, his two jobs, and four kids that limit his play time. Just make a good game.

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"Before one can identify anything as "gray", one has to know what is black and what is white. In the field of morality, this means that one must first identify what is good and what is evil. And when a man has ascertained that one alternative is good and the other evil, he has no justification for choosing a mixture. " Ayn Rand

3devious

They're playing the numbers, they just want to sell games, they don't care who buys them, average people or raiders and they don't care whether or not they are good.

To these people, selling = good.
(That's an assignment though folks believe it is an evaluation.)

Edwin Ahe

In other words: We can forget that making computer games is art, it`s now industry like pop-music and movies.

IMHO humanity is not growing up, we degrade into stone age (retarded version). Every kind of art is now remade into money-sucking mechanism, where nobody cares about quality of product, only about huge profits. That makes me sad panda =(

Panthera

Art?

This has never been a work of art. It has always been a business. Always.

Seriously, without the bread and butter subscriptions, you wouldn't have a game. Unless, of course, you and all the other people saying "fuck the casual gamer" are willing to pay $1,000 for the software and a monthly fee of $99.

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Krakks

I agree with you. The problem is though - that right now, the "please as many people as we can" model - from a profitability standpoint - seems to be working for developers.

If they were to make a *cough*niche*cough* game for those of us who are "old school" gamers - that focused on being "rewarding" over being "fun" - on being "deep" over being "accessible"... odds are, they would have a game that a few hundred thousand of us would play for several years...

BUT - as WoW proves - currently, games can be - well - NONE of those things, and do much better than a few hundred thousand, thank you very much.

I have hope though. Many of you will remember back from the EQ days how there was a first small, then increasingly loud voice that said things were too hard / harsh in that game (and others like it).

Then came WoW - which essentially made MMO's available to a much larger audience. It was a breath of fresh air to a lot of people (while others hated it outright).

Millions of folks are still eating the candy that WoW dishes out every night you get on and play. I still have accounts there myself - I have friends in WoW... and while I no longer enjoy the candy, I try to log in occasionally to spend time with folks who live on the other side of the country.

But - haunt enough forums, and you notice that there has been a small (and now growing) voice asking for things to go back the other way. I have hope that some developer will pick up on the fact that they can make a good chunk of change off of pleasing that "growing voice" - or that the industry in general will swing somewhat back the other way - and create games that are still accessible to players - but prize depth of content over giving their players candy every two seconds.

There were many aspects of EQ that simply sucked the life out of you at times - but I don't think anyone here who played it will deny that they felt such an amazing high when they finally persevered and got something that they strived for.

For example - I know that for myself, I was in a more "family" oriented guild that raided some - and it took me TWO years to get my final drop for Earthcaller (second sword of the ranger epic) - I was so happy the night I got it - that I couldn't sleep. The next day I logged in, and simply sat there looking at it for a while. (GOD I'm a nerd)

Nothing in today's games frustrates you the way EQ could - but nothing gives you that "high" either. The two go hand in hand - and there HAS to be a happy medium out there - one where players need to strive for something, but not to the point where EQ drove you at times... so that on the other side of it - you get highs you simply cannot get in today's MMO's.

Atrixia

They didn't listen then why would they listen now? The games industry (not just MMOs) is a buddy buddy reach around system and it's making them money so why change?

We, as consumers, buy the stuff they put out and regardless of our complaints we still pay the subscriptions and buy the boxes.

There is no impetus for change coming fom either end.

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Edwin Ahe

I think you missed my point. Look anywhere in "fun industry". All companies only push quality levels of their products lower and lower to appeal to most retarded audience, and they also promote retardation as "kewl way of life". What happened to books, music and movies that made you think? Where you have to have brains to understand. Yes there are still some people who do such things, but they are mostly blocked by huge companies and raving crowds of fans.