T-minus 90 days until I cancel my EQ2 account. - Page 13

Narkle · 01-23-2008, 02:07 PM

23 if Sonne is in raid Euron get it right

firamas · 01-23-2008, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caswydian

Really? What sort of effort does it take, and how is that effort quantifiably greater than for other play-styles? How do you really measure effort, such that you can claim this statement is factual?

............

Is it the effort being rewarded? If so, why shouldn't all effort be rewarded equally? Why should effort at raiding receive better rewards than the same effort expended at soloing or crafting or some other form of play?

Ignorance is not a good starting point for an argument, I'm sorry to say. It's apparent that you have no idea what level of coordination and effort it takes to sustain an endgame raiding guild.

The resources required, prior preparation, and time investment in getting a full raid force to work together as one cohesive unit (instead of 24 people who happen to be attacking the same mob) is astronomical, compared to other content. The delta in effort required for a guild to clear VP is not a linear increase over the amount required to so heroic and solo content, it is exponential.

If MMO designers decided that Risk vs Reward should be a simple function of time invested, as so many ignorant whiners apparently think should be the case, then you could just do ~16-24 hours worth of solo questing and end up with a reward equal to endgame Fabled loot. If you assume that a raid guild gets between 1 and 2 pieces of Fabled loot for every hour of raiding, and there are 24 people present, then everyone should be getting approximately 1 piece of endgame loot every ~24 hours worth of raiding. However, that is in no way reflective of what "Risk vs Reward" means; time investment is not "risky". That is why Fabled loot isn't (or should not) be available outside of epic encounters.

No amount of insolent crybabyism will ever change that fact.

MysidiaDrakkenbane · 01-23-2008, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Euron Greyjoy

Because it takes twenty-four people for one item, douchebag. Say it with me.

One person solos, he gets one item. Twenty-four come together and... logically... the one item should be? TWENTY-FOUR TIMES BETTER.

Go back to EQ2players, your kind is not welcome here.

I'm so glad at least someone gets it.

And....

Quote:

However, that is in no way reflective of what "Risk vs Reward" means; time investment is not "risky". That is why Fabled loot isn't (or should not) be available outside of epic encounters.

this is why I had a huge problem of the legendary that came out of EoF was better than the KoS Fabled. It completely trivialized the work I put into my character in raiding KoS. Legendary should never ever be on the same level as Fabled. I shouldn't have really think about replacing my Fabled gear because the Legendary is only a few points off.

It IS harder to raid, whether the casuals want to admit it or not, and until they actually get to that level where they can, they will never understand.

Deludar · 01-23-2008, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysidiaDrakkenbane

It IS harder to raid, whether the casuals want to admit it or not, and until they actually get to that level where they can, they will never understand.

I think its harder to do a tough instance (MC/Chelsith) with 6 random people in MC/Legendary gear (casuals) then it is to raid with 24 people who you play with every day over vent with fabled gear (raiders)

I wipe more times in pick up groups in those instance single group zones then I do in 90% of raid zones.

Cuz · 01-23-2008, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysidiaDrakkenbane

It IS harder to raid, whether the casuals want to admit it or not, and until they actually get to that level where they can, they will never understand.

Any game where you can't fail imput = easy. So harder than abismaly easy doesn't mean much. Sorry champ.

Lesdat · 01-23-2008, 03:44 PM

The only difficulty in raiding is the coordination of 24 members. It is made easier if each participant better understands their class, yes. But risk vs. reward isn't justifiable.

I still agree fabled should be tuned up, leave legendary alone.

MysidiaDrakkenbane · 01-23-2008, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deludar

I think its harder to do a tough instance (MC/Chelsith) with 6 random people in MC/Legendary gear (casuals) then it is to raid with 24 people who you play with every day over vent with fabled gear (raiders)

I wipe more times in pick up groups in those instance single group zones then I do in 90% of raid zones.

People not knowing how to maximize their class talents doesn't equate difficulty. It just means they suck at their class.

The reason why it's harder to do the instance with a pickup group is because you don't know how they play their class. The people you raid with day in and day out, you understand how they run. Working with someone side by side for an extended period of time, there will always be a familiarity. That can't be helped.

Widem · 01-23-2008, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lesdat

The only difficulty in raiding is the coordination of 24 members. It is made easier if each participant better understands their class, yes. But risk vs. reward isn't justifiable.

I still agree fabled should be tuned up, leave legendary alone.

seriously, tuned up to what? treasured is already on the top 80% of the curve, legendary the top 95%...theres no where to give bonuses except for overpower procs such as from last tier avatar stuff or just straigh up giving every fabled peice like 5% crits and up to 50 on every item which is hmmm wow capped again!

Flaming Homo · 01-23-2008, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysidiaDrakkenbane

No, it's risk vs reward and it should ALWAYS be that way. So the people that put in more time and effort should be fucked because the casuals are crying for better gear?

Any discussion of risk versus reward in an MMO is utterly stupid. What are you risking? That, while sitting in front of your 'puter, you'll eat too many tons of Cheetos, gain 500 pounds, develop heart disease at a young age, become diabetic, and die before you're 30? Or is it repetitive stress syndrome that will put you on disability? Maybe photosensitive epileptic seizures? Risk is a real world concept that does not apply to escapes into a virtual fiction.

Also, people are always tossing around terms like 'casual' or 'hardcore' and there is no standard definition for those terms within the context of MMOs. Are you identifying casual players based on the style of play or content played? Or is your definition based on hours played each day or week?

Quote:

That's like your boss handing out equal raises when your co-worker comes in late and leaves early when you're putting in 40+ hours a week.

I advise you to never accept employment with any government entity.

Edwin Ahe · 01-23-2008, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flaming Homo

Any discussion of risk versus reward in an MMO is utterly stupid. What are you risking? That, while sitting in front of your 'puter, you'll eat too many tons of Cheetos, gain 500 pounds, develop heart disease at a young age, become diabetic, and die before you're 30? Or is it repetitive stress syndrome that will put you on disability? Maybe photosensitive epileptic seizures? Risk is a real world concept that does not apply to escapes into a virtual fiction.

Also, people are always tossing around terms like 'casual' or 'hardcore' and there is no standard definition for those terms within the context of MMOs. Are you identifying casual players based on the style of play or content played? Or is your definition based on hours played each day or week?

I advise you to never accept employment with any government entity.

Quit MMOs, throw your PC out, buy PS3 and play fucking Mario. That way everybody will be happy.