Uyaem

That is in no way a contradiction. Let me play connect-the-dots for you.
The logical information to fill this gap with is that raids, as they give the encounter designer the chance to be more creative and versatile, should always be harder. At the very least, the learning curve is steeper.

True story!

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Oizen

Oh 'cmon guys... hasn't this threadjack happened a few dozen times before? I believe the OP made a valid observation but we insist in drowning any potential quality thoughts on the matter in this never ending lamesauce.

Raid lewt > other lewt... why?
Because it should be, else Norrath drowns in tears. Being that this is a physical law of nature in Norrath that needs no other explanation. The OP has warned us that the flood is coming. Who's going to build us an arch and save Norrathian existence?

aduros

Because of the effort required to receive that loot.

Raid 24 people > Group 6 people > Solo 1 person

I can't break it down any simpler for you than that. If you're so willing to accept that group loot should be better in quality than solo gear, why is it so hard to understand that gear received from raids should follow that same progression, and for the same reason.

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Oizen

Good... so we're all in agreement. I'm glad you're onboard aduros. Now we're making some headway.

Why are raiders passing up on FABLED raided gear for their LEGENDARY easy lewts? That will help us get to the nuts of the issue and not run circles around the moron opinion based topics that go nowhere.

Caswydian

And if a group encounter were demonstrably harder than a raid encounter, should it give better rewards?

MysidiaDrakkenbane

I'm hoping that the devs will never make this happen. Epic battles should never EVER be easier than a heroic encounter. Ever.

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aduros

Difficulty is not the issue, it's effort.

You can argue back and forth as to which encounters are 'harder'; however, what's indisputable is that once you are required to gather multiple groups to defeat an encounter the reward should be greater.

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Caswydian

How do you manage this? What makes an encounter easy or difficult? How do you create entry level raid encounters, like Labs, where the encounters are likely easier early on than the highest-end heroic encounters?

The problem with this sort of a hard rule on difficulty is it means either heroic content gets nerfed to justify the lower-end rewards, or raid encounters become inaccessible to all but a handful of guilds.

What you are proposing is incompatible with the creation of both challenging heroic encounters and accessible, entry level raids.

Caswydian

Effort is relative. An experienced raid guild will need little effort to take out the T1 RoK raids, while a casual raiding guild may require substantially more effort. How should rewards reflect this disparity in effort?

Oizen

..and honestly if that steel FABLED toting box doesn't have a little something for at least 4 folks in the raid the raiders are getting the shaft even if all things where relative... but that's not the issue, is it?

The issue is raiders are passing up on raid drops for their solo quested or group instanced drops... and that 'aint right no matter which side of the fence folks are on.

So... how do we make the raid drops more desirable than the other stuff? I personally don't think the other stuff needs bigtime nerfing... maybe we can identify the attributes that make the uber raiders dig the lower tier stuff over their big nasty FABLED hots.

Let's get some details here... I'd guess mit is going to be better on FABLED stuff so obviously that's not the winner and +X to ability doesn't give raiders a hardon because of diminishing returns. So I'm left thinking that it's random procs or other silly stuff that has them sexing all over the LEGENDARY stuff.

We are closer to logical recommendations than you might think. Don't give up on the prize here folks.

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