T-minus 90 days until I cancel my EQ2 account. - Page 18

Oizen · 01-24-2008, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysidiaDrakkenbane

Since they also introduced adornments, you could very easily make your legendary gear become on par with the fabled drop. Also something that should never happen. The higher end adornments should only be compatable with fabled, second highest with legendary, and so on and so on.

Fabled should be the elite of the elite and the people that can't handle that aspect should step up their fucking game and shit or get off the pot.

Agreed on the last paragraph... but could you not also adorn your FABLED with the same as the LEGENDARY? Not trying to be difficult. I'm actually trying to validate your point but, it stands to reason right?

Pinski · 01-24-2008, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oisin

What bonus on the LEGENDARY stuff (that normally caps three levels lower than the FABLED stuff) are the raiders really digging on? If it's not +mit, +resists, +ability due to diminishing returns.

FABLED Item "X" has more applicable mit and abilities but we've decided that diminishing returns make those unattractive.

LEGENDARY Item "Y" has more... ??? ...and that's why we love it and transmute our FABLED drops.

...I'm bored with opinion based babble... let's get some details or write this thread off as a failure. I'm honestly trying to help the elitists but, it almost seems like they don't want to get this ironed out.

I don't think you've looked at the gear. There is a Fabled Mage-only Ring that has +45 Spell Damage that comes off the end boss of the West Wing in VP. Now the problem is, a simple heroic named in Crypt of Agony drops a Ring with very similar stats, except it has +70 Spell Damage and +3 Spell Crit. Understand the problem now?

Oizen · 01-24-2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinski

I don't think you've looked at the gear. There is a Fabled Mage-only Ring that has +45 Spell Damage that comes off the end boss of the West Wing in VP. Now the problem is, a simple heroic named in Crypt of Agony drops a Ring with very similar stats, except it has +70 Spell Damage and +3 Spell Crit. Understand the problem now?

hmmmm... I certainly understand the problem and think I've expressed that, even if someone wants to get all buttsore about my phrasing. Now we need factors if we want to debate a solution. You have given us at least something to discuss.

+Spell Damage
+Spell Crit

...are two things on LEGENDARY gear that should never be higher than FABLED gear because no matter the other crap, those are more attractive when sitting side by side. This is a good find.

What is the purpose of this thread? Not everyone seems to have the same goal.

MysidiaDrakkenbane · 01-24-2008, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oisin

Agreed on the last paragraph... but could you not also adorn your FABLED with the same as the LEGENDARY? Not trying to be difficult. I'm actually trying to validate your point but, it stands to reason right?

No. There shouldn't be backwards compatability. There has to be a balance somewhere for the adornments, if they were to put my suggestion into play.

Oizen · 01-24-2008, 05:09 PM

Doesn't make them backward compatible but, maybe I missed your point...

FABLED better than LEGENDARY
LEGENDARY +adorns equals FABLED
FABLED +adorns better than LEGENDARY +adorns

...is what we were getting at, right? Since adorns can be applied to both they essentially cancel each other out as an advantage right?

MysidiaDrakkenbane · 01-24-2008, 05:14 PM

Oh, I get what you're saying now.

As it is now, Legendary with adornments can be on par with Fabled. It shouldn't be that way. That was my point.

Oizen · 01-24-2008, 05:25 PM

I'm probably a good example of the casual twinker, that's why I've pursued this discussion. Mainly because when my EoF toon was in the top 5 or 10 HP on the Permafrost leader board (I think I made as high as #3 for a few weeks) after only a few hours of adornment and gear research on the test server, I too felt that it may have been to easy for the casual nerd to compete with the obsessed nerd... and that was back in EoF just before RoK launched.

I'd planned to go a'twinking eventually in RoK just to prove it I could make the leader board again just for fun but being that I am casual, I haven't bothered yet. I feel for you guys and prior to kids, I spent damn near every waking moment playing videogames, being on-call for raids (even at work) and completely nerding out when I wasn't out partying... happily I've found better stuff to do with my life the majority of the time but... I've honestly been there and want you guys to get an edge for all your commitment to the game.

Caswydian · 01-24-2008, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aduros

Your looking at effort in terms of time allocated, I'm talking about quantity of players required. Once you're requiring multiple groups to clear content, the loot should understandably be better. The semantics of high end guilds breezing through T1 content can be argued in another topic. The core of the matter is that it requires more effort than group content, so the reward is required to be greater.

That raiding requires more coordination and more people is good justification for a higher quantity of loot, so that more people have a shot at getting something, but it is not alone justification for a higher quality of loot. The problem is, the extra effort involved in raiding is at a team level - guild, alliance, etc., but the rewards are at the individual level.

Does a raid really require more effort from each individual than heroic content? In some cases, this is certainly true, but in others having 23 other people in a raid with you means it's easier to slack off. In a group, chances are you only have one, maybe two healers, so if the healer is slacking, you know it. In a raid, unless people are checking the parses after each fight, a healer, especially in a group other than the MT group, could not do anything and the raid would be no worse off.

Ravanos · 01-24-2008, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caswydian

That raiding requires more coordination and more people is good justification for a higher quantity of loot, so that more people have a shot at getting something, but it is not alone justification for a higher quality of loot. The problem is, the extra effort involved in raiding is at a team level - guild, alliance, etc., but the rewards are at the individual level.

Does a raid really require more effort from each individual than heroic content? In some cases, this is certainly true, but in others having 23 other people in a raid with you means it's easier to slack off. In a group, chances are you only have one, maybe two healers, so if the healer is slacking, you know it. In a raid, unless people are checking the parses after each fight, a healer, especially in a group other than the MT group, could not do anything and the raid would be no worse off.

after raiding quite a bit in EQ2(que the "omg you probably have only done labs ... dimwit) i have come to the conclusion that the only people who put effort into the raid are

1) the guy(s) that comes up with strats

and 2) the Main tank

everyone else is just a bunch of slobs there riding coattails.

so maybe just those two guys should get loot. unless of course you consider "paying fucking attention" as skillful.

Oizen · 01-24-2008, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caswydian

That raiding requires more coordination and more people is good justification for a higher quantity of loot, so that more people have a shot at getting something, but it is not alone justification for a higher quality of loot. The problem is, the extra effort involved in raiding is at a team level - guild, alliance, etc., but the rewards are at the individual level.

Does a raid really require more effort from each individual than heroic content? In some cases, this is certainly true, but in others having 23 other people in a raid with you means it's easier to slack off. In a group, chances are you only have one, maybe two healers, so if the healer is slacking, you know it. In a raid, unless people are checking the parses after each fight, a healer, especially in a group other than the MT group, could not do anything and the raid would be no worse off.

So raiding is easier than grouping? Sweet! This thread isn't quite kilt. /discuss
j/k

That is actually a neat observation about the slackass healer but, the truth is someone will catch them and they will no longer be permitted to partake in the reindeer games... because a raider DOES look over the parse, even on a win. They take the time outside of the encounter to fine tune. It's not considered outside of the game to a raider. It's part of the game.

Where as a non-raider probably doesn't even load up a parser or give a crap if the zone gets cleared all the same and certainly can't be bothered to crunch numbers except when they're at the broker.