Niber

I disagree, top guilds are relatively stable at the top and that's what sets them above the rest now and in the future.

What kinda crack are you smoking? The completely bias kind? How about servers that didn't even see Mischief pre-nerf? That makes them less of a guild? If you want a challenge you're going to have to rewind the clock back of Fallen Dynasty.. was Paradigm around back then?

PS. You're the man for booting Crac!

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Loudness

not that we give a fuck, but strike also started raiding a week before us, got in vp a week before us, raided on thanksgiving, and still only cleared it what? 5? hours before us

typical strike discred, you wouldn't even be on that list if you didn't transfer to another server that had absolutely no thread of competition at all, grats on being 2 numbers above us, we still remain 50 dollars richer.

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Gage

AoM was stupid because of the pet purple screen bullshit, which affected even God pets. IMO anyway. I'd assume the guilds who killed him early would like to latch on to that as something amazing, but the encounter was a joke when you weren't getting purple screens on God pets and getting overran with adds.

VP clearing is a joke too, three guilds did it within hours of each other after Phara Dar was fixed.

The saddest thing is that there is nothing worthwhile to base a ranking on IMO. That sucks for the guilds who like to compete WW.

I like how you imply that the amazing defeat of AoM enabled NPU/Paradigm to beat Phara Dar what, a few hours before us? Amazing.

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Cleansing the internet of e-whores since 2003! Just saying!

Pryz

Paradigm is, and always will be the longest running joke in the raiding community. Still suffering from little brother that wants to be cool too syndrome.

Side note, it makes me really happy that there is a guild called Get Big Son.

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bubb

lets check again

Mendanbar

Maybe we should have a nek castle fraps-off to settle this!

Tristen

Before you speak and looks retarded perhaphs you should notice strike also cleared AoM prenerf. Im not s trike fan boy but they are Very good, and as you are a raid leader of course you think your guild is great but honestly this is the first i have heard of your pathetic guild....

Loudness

Nerf went in on like Oct 23rdish with GU39 if im not mistaken, His post was made on Nov 3rd..

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Jaraxx

First - I don't even know who the fuck you are Loudness. You were n certainly not competiting with us(or if you were, it was on some other character - please specify. Do not speak of matters you could not possibly understand.

Second we saw Mischief for the third time a week before RoK came out. (First time it was up, no one killed it. Then NPU killed it, then we had it pop, we couldn't kill it. We didn't have all our classes and it looked really impossible for us with that set up at the current point, then the next time it popped it was dead within a few hours. It just happened to be a lot later.

Lastly, there is not a whole lot to base progression on, folks may decide that they don't think there should be even considered "top 5 guilds". I'm not to argue for/against that. However if you were going to base what are the top guilds the OP should of had criteria stated to choose from.

Everyone is always going to have their different opinions on who is top 5.

Let me brainstorm idea's of how it should be determined.

This is at least my opinion on how it should be determined to be a top raiding guild.

If someone claims to be a top guild, shouldn't they be able to compete with the ones who are actually killing content for a ww 1sts?

Get World Wide firsts. I'm not talking about getting a WW 1st 3 years ago. I'm talking about at least able to get one or two world wide firsts an expansion.

Constantly defeat content in the top rankings. Hey let's just go with "top 5" since that's what this post as directed at. If you are a top 5 guild then all your kills should be WITHIN the top 5 guilds to defeat an encounter.

There shouldn't be any bullshit of saying "Omg we started a week late because we had real problems!" Or, "Omg we had our members banned for stupid things." Let's face it. Most of you guys have Noah's Ark guilds anyway and are rocking rosters up in the 30's. The chances are you're not going to have half your guild go away.

Omg Holidays! Everyone has holidays. Some of us (my guild certainly included) decided that we would spend the holidays as early as possible and get on as soon as we could to kill mobs so we could stay within reaching distance of NPU. Does that make us Losers? Perhaps, but in order for us to consider ourselves a top guild, if someone is ahead of us then we obviously fucked up. We'll make sacrifices in order to compete still (even tho the content ended up being a joke, at the time it was fun and we were trying to catch NPU. (Talking about V.S. Here btw. We didn't do this with more then 20 people btw. It just goes to show you that you don't need to have a full raid to defeat these joke encounters.

Also to clarify something Loudness. We may have been a week ahead of you. But we also only had 19 People in Veeshan's Peak when we first went in. We also didn't have any rogues. We also reset our lockout timers EVERY TIME it was up. At the time that would typically put us a day behind. O by the way, did I mention that practically none of us were in Beta? O and we still killed shit in a top 5 category.

- This wasn't an attack on Aftermath. It was just trying to clarify something for Loudness. I don't really care about Aftermath at this point and I'm not going to go bash them unless one of their members or someone associated with them tries to talk shit about my guild.

Sorry to derail - back onto my previous arguments.

There are exceptions of course. Like an Avatar not popping. (This is not a good way to determine a guild. Not everyone gets the same Avatars so you could be an advantage or a disadvantage due to random game mechanics. (This is stupid, and is not an accurate way to determine a guilds progression. I think it should still credit a ww 1st when it's taken down because let's face it. There's not a whole lot of content anyway and it's not like only ONE server is going to get ONE specific avatar.

You should be proud of killing an Avatar 1st, even if it wasn't up on the other half of the servers. However let's say hypothetically, NPU kills Avatar of Fear (RoK first). They shouldn't go bragging about it all that much if Disso/SD didn't kill it (assuming it wasn't up on there server). That would just be retarded. There's no possible way they could of beat that mob if it wasn't on their server.

Let's recap,

What defines a WW guild (IMO) Flame if you want, I do not care.

Must be able to at least get a ww 1st or two every once in a while.

Must be able to constantly kill mobs in the top 5. (Assuming they have access to them,) (Speaking in EoF-Avatar forms).

Now, LFG I propose that the next person that makes a post like this without giving criteria to rank on should be banned for at least a week. OPS like this are just lowering the intelligence of our community as a whole.

If my post offended you or if you didn't understand it then you are probably,

Overly sensitive,
Extremely ignorant,

In either case I don't really give a damn what you think anyway.

Cheers,

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Jaraxx Goldveins Leader of Strike

Jaraxx

Also to clarify to Tristen, Paradigm did kill a version (I am pretty sure) that only one other guild killed (which was NPU).

Grats to them on that. A very noteworthy accomplishment (no sarcasm)

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Jaraxx Goldveins Leader of Strike