Gnobrin bans people in the official forums for unwritten forum rules

[Laresh]

You guys got banned? I told a dev to go fuck himself and the moderator was like "now now, thats not nice" and didn't do anything else.

[Demron]

Originally Posted by Savanja

Well, a couple of things. First, regarding the forum policy there, I wasn't stating opinion I was stating what I knew to be true. I'm sure we can agree that I might have some insight there.

If you want my opinion on the forums (something you may actually declare wrong if you'd like) then here it is; there is a reason why I racked up nearly 11k posts in a couple of years then stopped posting there (outside of Ten Ton Hammer business) and quit my mod gig. I didn't like how the forums were being handled, I made my opinion known, then moved on. I'm sure a few around here can testify that I spoke up on more than one occasion that the smack down was a bit too much and I rallied for the freedom of many of the forums (NGD, PvP, and server forums to be exact) in which I thought the rules should be less stringent.

As for being wrong about Gnobrin's personal stuffs. While it is available on the net that doesn't really make it all that classy to hunt it down and post it. I go out of my way to protect my own RL info because I've been stalked by players. Not everyone realizes that once they make their way into a public position that people get freakin weird, but alas they do to the point where they are calling your home phone to speak with "Savanja". It makes me cringe a little when people take that step in to creepy. I hope Gnobrin sees this and takes measure to protect himself.

I agree with you. The personal (private) attacks are scary, and shouldn't happen. I disagree the forums should be a disconnect to the game you pay for. It is a nightmare to find out where to take your complaints.

The EQ2 Official Forums is tagged and labeled for EQ2. The tag "Official" labels it as a tool for PAYING customers. A lot of information, or help can only be found on the forums. In fact I've been told by in-game support to seek the forums for an answer.

Free or not, SoE has provided a service for its customers, and are obligated to deliver fair, and expected customer support.

[Slamdar]

Originally Posted by Laresh

You guys got banned? I told a dev to go fuck himself and the moderator was like "now now, thats not nice" and didn't do anything else.

You must have gotten a response from a moderator that didn't have a persistant case of a sandy vagina.

[Kelenvor]

This guy is really a work of art. He is so underqualified for his position that it's not funny. His posts don't even come close to connecting with players. Remember the time that he responded to a post saying that's it's not very PC to use your alts to help your character. He's so out of touch that's it not funny. He's probably barely moved away from the newbie zones in EQ2.

Blackguard and Moorgard could be asses at times but at least they knew the game. You felt like they were in touch with the players. This guy is almost a joke. He came onto the scene without as much as introducing himself. He just showed up one day and started posting. Then a month or two down the road, Grimwell was like..oh yea..he's your community manager.

Have you ever gotten a PM from him that wasn't scripted? My 10 year nephew has better grammar skills then him. I responded back that I'd answer him if he spoke to me like an adult.

It amazes me that he's held onto his position this long. He'd been fired anywhere else that actually cared about their standing within the community.

Sony needs to ask the questions, Since he has started, what has he done for EQ2? How has he made the community better? What is his vision for the future? What did he do to help clean up the test transfer mess and help salvage face for Sony?

I guarantee you that they wouldn't like the answers.

[Arch0n]

Originally Posted by Kelenvor

It amazes me that he's held onto his position this long. He'd been fired anywhere else that actually cared about their standing within the community.

Sony needs to ask the questions, Since he has started, what has he done for EQ2? How has he made the community better? What is his vision for the future? What did he do to help clean up the test transfer mess and help salvage face for Sony?

I guarantee you that they wouldn't like the answers.

And that's the insulting part. It's not enough that GMs are outsourced to India and can't even speak English, but the designated community manager is a spoiled 12-year old on a powertrip.

The official EQ2 forums are a fucking wasteland, and rightly so. The fact that nobody at SOE is particularly bothered or embarrassed about it... that's insulting.

Now, if it's the case that they actually WANT third-party forums built from the fanbase, and they don't really WANT to maintain a portal, then they should just man up and shut them down except for patch notes and let the community police itself. They don't do shit for anyone as they stand now.

[Kalyai]

I got my 1st ban today on the official forums!! Morningside is VERY active today...apparently I am "excessively negative"

Sorry, you've been banned from posting messages in this forum.

Reason for Ban: Excessive negativity
You may NOT post or place in a signature any material that attacks or insults others on the forums; or engages in name-calling, harassment, or threats. Furthermore, you may not "troll" the forums. "Trolling" is defined as: Posting with the intent of stirring up trouble or to incite disruption. An example of trolling would be posting to a thread without the intent to provide constructive suggestions or comments and instead making disruptive comments. In general, you may post any material written in a courteous and mature manner, providing that it is on-topic for the forum to which you are posting. This includes material that disagrees with the way that we, the developers, operate the game. We will not interfere with the communication of thoughts and ideas as long as the presentation is constructive and appropriate for all those capable of reading the forum.

Length of Ban: 1 week (from 02/13/2008 1001 to 02/20/2008 1001)

edit: those emotes werent put there on purpose by me lol its actually the datestamp format that SOE uses...but it is QUITE fitting here in this case!

All participants of this forum are expected to abide by the forum's Rules of Conduct.

If you feel this ban is unjustified please review the Rules of Conduct, and if you still feel the ban was enacted in error, contact the administrator and describe your reasons.

[tracheaspider]

What ticks me off is their pet fanbois can troll their fucking little hearts out in thread after thread after thread and rarely do they get a yank on the leash. But if you happen to hint that not all is right and perfect in SOE-ville, then WHAM, down comes the ban. Usually after these bug-eyed. drooling little trolldogs take a whiz or two on your socks.

Maybe now that my week-long ban is up (I'll admit, I was trying to provoke a fanboitrolldog), I'll set up a 2nd account as a pseudo-fanboitrolldog and get into a fight with myself and see which one gets banned first.

[Savanja]

Originally Posted by Demron

I agree with you. The personal (private) attacks are scary, and shouldn't happen. I disagree the forums should be a disconnect to the game you pay for. It is a nightmare to find out where to take your complaints.

The EQ2 Official Forums is tagged and labeled for EQ2. The tag "Official" labels it as a tool for PAYING customers. A lot of information, or help can only be found on the forums. In fact I've been told by in-game support to seek the forums for an answer.

Free or not, SoE has provided a service for its customers, and are obligated to deliver fair, and expected customer support.

I never said they should be. I was stating forum policy as we were told. The mods aren't CS and can't help in that capacity as much as players would like them to, and for the most part they don't want feedback and complaints there outside of specified forums for it.

If the forums were used for what they are intended for by those who own them, no one would be banned. The players can say all over the place what THEY think they are for, but the people who make those decisions are the ones doing the banning so it seems that the players would all be wrong there, eh?

[Grimwell]

Let's clear a few things up.

Escalation
If you have been banned and feel that it's not legitimate, please feel free to contact me. Faabio can attest to the fact that my email address is pretty easy to find (cdalrymple@soe.sony.com) and that I am open to discuss and look at things. No Faabio, don't contact me. You are still banned. You can't play nice in the big pool even if you are funny about it.

Yes, that message saying 'contact an admin' could be much better. I agree.

Standards
Ok, we get it. Sometimes you really just need to go somewhere and post "Grimwell is a fucking moron. I would kill him if I was given ten seconds in a dark alley. He should have been a stain on his daddy's sheets. How SOE hired such a shit brained tool to do this job, the worst anyone has ever done with it, is beyond me. Fucking loser."

That would be a place like EQ2Flames.

The official forums have a bit of decorum required. It's not that hard to understand, and amazingly easy to comply with. I can say fuck on my blog -- it's my fucking blog -- but I will not say fuck on a work related property. Forums, Players page, etc. Why? Because that's not a part of the job.

Don't be surprised that standards are enforced on the official forum. Even if you differ with them. I have more respect for Sav in saying her piece and politely backing it than I do in someone breaking the standards (agree with them or not) and being surprised that moderation happens.

Personal Lives
Yes, many people have their own websites out of work. Don't be a douchebag and make a deal of it. That's cheap.

Y'all Here
I have not investigated everyone who has posted here. I'm at home and only here because someone suggested I take a peek. That said, I encourage you to contact me (see above) and I will give you the same respect I give anyone who asks me to check on a ban. Those of you making crap up won't get a free pass (and yes, one person in this thread is not banned, and has no history of moderation at all.).

If your ban was for the wrong reasons, I'll take care of it professionally. I will not string anyone up in the streets so you can throw tomatoes; but I will remedy the situation.

No, Faabio, don't contact me.

If your ban was for the right reason, I'm not going to change a thing no matter how much you rail about it. Even if you misconstrue the situation. I review bans on a regular basis, the number that change is minuscule because most people can't play by the rules and are upset when it's insisted that they do. I won't bend the rules just because you don't like them.

Understanding
These are big games, with big communities, and a large number of 'issues' to be addressed at any time. Community Managers try to have their finger on the pulse of things and share that information with the teams who can investigate issues and repair them if necessary. When there is room for it in the development schedule.

Externally that can make people think that nothing is happening, and they are being ignored. Those thoughts can get a person frustrated and they can suddenly find that they are crossing the line and doing any number of things that are going to draw moderation...

Making personal attacks on developers or other players.
Using naughty language.
Posting the issue to multiple threads in a spam attack.
Trolling every chance they get about the issue.
Or any number of things.
Including someone just screwing up and making a joke that they shouldn't have.

Those things draw moderation. Sometimes a simple warning or short ban helps remind a person that there is a right way to do things, and a wrong way. Sometimes that does not help and they are made welcome to the rest of the internet.

Sometimes people are just mean and shouldn't be in the official forums. That's just how life is. Even the charmingly goofy ones like Faabio. No, don't email me friend. It's not going to help.

Wow, big post eh? Yeah. Let's just be clear that Gnobrin is actually a great guy. If you think you've been the subject of unwarranted attention, get in touch. We actually don't celebrate bannings as something to do when we are bored. It's frustrating because some very smart people just don't want to play by the rules... but that's life.

Oh, and if you find me in that dark alley... you had better one shot me or it's going to get ugly. ;P

[Grimwell]

BTW, I'm going to go play a game and relax for the night. Don't reply here asking me questions you want answers for.