Gnobrin bans people in the official forums for unwritten forum rules

[Kruhl]

The subject speaks for itself here. I'm not banned anymore (it was only a week long ban), but I will tell you this. The reason for the ban was given as "excessive negativity." My post was on topic, didn't contain vulgar language, was said in a mature manner, but since I was criticizing the developers by asking how come there were no PVP fixes or changes in LU42 (at first, later changed right before LU42 was released), he decided to ban me.

What's really disappointing, is he's supposed to be the Community Manager, and he's relatively new to the position. So I would have thought he would have made it a point to be fair in his rulings, and only ban people for things that are actually against the rules. If anybody can point me to a forum rule saying you can't be negative, or too negative, I will apologize immediately.

In addition, at the end of the ban, it said to contact the administrator if I wanted to contest the ban. Unfortunately it doesn't give you contact information, and when you try to PM an administrator, it says you're banned! So it seems they really don't want you attempting to contact an administrator in the first place, even though the ban message clearly states you can. After an hour or two of research, I figured out that Gnobrin's e-mail address is abisnett@soe.sony.com. I sent him a well thought out e-mail concerning my banning and why I wanted to contest the charges, and he completely ignored my e-mail. I sent a follow up e-mail about a week later asking if my e-mail was received, and that e-mail was ignored as well.

In the years I have been posting in these forums, this is the only time I've been banned. I wasn't given a warning, and I was banned for an unwritten rule. My e-mails to the forum administrator went ignored. I then spoke with an SOE customer service rep through live chat and they said they would escalate the issue to "tier 2" support. After 2 days, I received an e-mail saying my petition was closed because I had refused to provide any updates. Eventhough it was me waiting on Sony, not Sony waiting on me.

I'd have to say I'm pretty disappointed in the way Gnobrin handled this situation. I would have expected more professionalism from somebody who is relatively new to the job. Maybe it's just the fact he's new to the job and hasn't figured out his role exactly, but here's to hoping that he makes better decisions in the future, and actually responds to the concerns of a valued customer, instead of ignoring them completely.

[pagansaint]

He hits me with that every few weeks and tries to tie it into a trolling "rule"

Welcome to the Club.

[Kruhl]

Originally Posted by pagansaint

He hits me with that every few weeks and tries to tie it into a trolling "rule"

Welcome to the Club.

This is their rule concerning trolling:

"Troll the forums. "Trolling" is defined as: Posting with the intent
of stirring up trouble or to incite disruption. An example of trolling
would be posting to a thread without the intent to provide constructive
suggestions or comments and instead making disruptive comments."

My comments asking where the PVP updates in LU42 were could in no way fall under their definition of trolling. I'm not attempting to incite disruption, I'm bringing to their attention something that thousands of people care about on the PVP servers. And I did it in a mature tone and manner. In addition, their example of trolling states that you would be posting in a thread without attempting to provide constructive comments or suggestions. My thread was very constructive and was intended to provide critical constructive feedback concerning the upcoming LU. It would be a stretch of the imagination to ban me under this rule, and I think most fair minded people would agree.

[alvarez]

it's really just a catch-all they can fall back on to stop issues they don't want discussed. sucks, but their forums, shrug.

[Kruhl]

Originally Posted by alvarez

it's really just a catch-all they can fall back on to stop issues they don't want discussed. sucks, but their forums, shrug.

And that's why my complaint is valid. That's exactly what scares me.

Who else silences people when they say or post something that criticizes the way they do their job. Dictators come to mind. Non-democracies come to mind. It wouldn't be as bad if they just made it a rule, because then they could always claim it's your fault for not reading and abiding by the rules. They could easily just say "Any critique of SOE or its employees is justification enough for a banning" and stick it in the forum rules and be done with it.

[pagansaint]

I got banned for trolling for posting parses to back up my arguments.

They cite rules but the rules rarely apply to the situation. And you can never contact them other than through in game petitions which get turned down for not being the right department.

Short and sweet of it is, Gnorbin is a power mad idiot.

[Zacii]

You have been banned.
Trolling the forums is still unacceptable, as you've already been warned many prior times before. This time, you're removed permanently. ~Gnobrin

[Adun]

Originally Posted by Kruhl

Dictators come to mind. Non-democracies come to mind.

We, the subscribers, have no rights. SOE is a corporation... a dictatorship, definitely not a democracy (well, with the possible exception of their stock holders). We, the subscribers, have only one right (if it can be called that). The right to "not pay" (and of course, not to play).

I completely agree with your concerns... and in reality, the existence and popularity of EQ2Flames should tell SOE that a "lot" of other subscribers have concerns as well. Sadly I think their focus has moved away from the community itself and focused entirely on how to keep as many people playing as possible.

So long as Gnorbrin's actions don't have any financial impact, he's probably free to conduct the community affairs as he see's fit. What he really needs is some lessons from Faarwolf. She spent a lot of time "socializing" with the community and seemed to have a much better feel for the players. She locked threads too, but she allowed us (the subscribers) more time to "solve" our own problems before dropping the hammer. I'm sure she had to ban people as well but truthfully, I dont remember it being a frequent event.

[Savanja]

How the forums are moderated is very much up to whomever is in charge. The rules are there as a guideline, but they aren't something that the moderators have to follow word for word and they may use their own discretion for what they feel is the best for the community.

Various theories of moderation have their pros and cons. Faar was awesome, but complaints rolled in a regular basis and there was bitching and bickering by the truck loads which becomes exhausting for a mod after a while. The forums are lower maintenance now and are meant to encourage thoughtful discussion and discourage needless back and forth arguing. Which is fab for those who want them that way, but I actually like the free flow of thoughts on a forum, whether I agree with those thoughts or not.

Bottom line? Forums are a perk or membership but not something you are paying for, so post there if you'd like, just do it with some tact and an eye open towards what they are trying to do over there.

[pagansaint]

What we are paying for is customer service, which is denied by the way they ban.

I think i played AC with you Savanna, remember that sig, the vaults boards had the right mix of moderation and intelligent moderator to work. tbh the way the SoE boards work is bullshit.