LFG you dog... - Page 12

Illuminator · 12-08-2006, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panthera

Take your guild: Club FU.

Your very guild name is a defiance of the naming policies of the game. Have you resigned? Have you reported it as a violation of the EULA? If not, why?

I was a member of Club Fu in late 2005/early 2006 before Cracatoa extended the Amend guild invite. After a bulk /petition scam from a bitter rival guild tried to derail the name, what we learned was that at one point in the past John Smedley personally approved the name.

I used to see Emma parked every night on the Sinking Sands beaches (sometimes the character would have a strange stutter) and all sorts of weird shit would happen when I would try to harvest. I'm talking like, no root nodes spawning for hours through the night even if I'm the only one there. Then down the line, s/he would give interesting details in guild chat about "Excel spreadsheet" harvest statistics and parses of what was harvested how often. I believe Feltrak was even going to deguild Emma at the start of 2006, but for some reason the enthusiasm to do so, died. Maybe there were a lot of entangling friendships that took away the clear-cuttedness... just as we are slow to noose LFG for making gobs of plat off the latest nerf.

All that said, I fail to see any flaws in Dehah's reasoning regarding the adornment reimbursement and I'm even somewhat amused that he held his ground as long as he did. Delving into as much detail doesn't instantly make him a prick, it just means that he was giving full service and faith to the argument, which is what I see certain smart people do, sometimes even in the sportlike spirit of Aristotle. I definitely won't consider him an idiot; most of what I know about stretching wizard dps, I learned from him.

Ily · 12-08-2006, 12:49 PM

And all these arguments are exactly why thinking in only black and white are bad. mkay?
Wether something is legal or not does not always justify doing it.
I can think of several things that are legal but yet morally abhorrent to many many people.
I can also think of several illegal things that i personally have no moral issue with what so ever.

So who is right?

Simonsays · 12-08-2006, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ily

And all these arguments are exactly why thinking in only black and white are bad. mkay?
Wether something is legal or not does not always justify doing it.
I can think of several things that are legal but yet morally abhorrent to many many people.
I can also think of several illegal things that i personally have no moral issue with what so ever.

So who is right?

I am because I say so!!! otherwise you lose the game...

bwa ha ha...

Kisy · 12-08-2006, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ishbu

SOE says hey we are completely changing these augments aka nerfing them into oblivion. We will refund the market value. Who here honestly knew what that was going to mean?

Did not the biggest names in crafting say I bet it means fuel cost?

Nobody knew what was going to happen, LFG took a risk and it worked in his favor. It is similar to buying an item someone lists on the broker for a price cheaper than what it should be and you buying it and trying to sell it back at a higher price. And how can you say it wasnt a risk? There was a high likely hood that nobody would want the augments anymore. Furthermore there was a high chance that the price for the components needed to make the adornments were going to drop dramatically (and they have) so all that is lost if SOE had only refunded the cost of the fuels. LFG stood to lose a large sum of plat if what pretty much everyone assumed was going to happen, had actually happened.

How many of you were in guild chat when LFG logged in and said, "HOLY SHIT" "I got over 100 plat and counting!"? I was. Clearly he didnt know what was going to happen, it was as much a surprise to him as anyone.

I guarentee if SOE were to post on this issue they would say it was by no means an exploit at all, he had no prior knowledge of what the reimbursement value would be and had no informantion that everyone else didnt have available to them. He did not do anything against the rules of the game and he even reported this so everyone could know and it could be handled when it all went down. In fact, if people at SOE were posting on this and were allowed to speak off the record they would most likely call whomever thinks this is an exploit a dumbass.

LFG lucked out period. No exploiting at all involved.

Saying this is an exploit means that anyone who saved a collection quest or got a quest ready for turn in before the expansion exploited because they got a head start on AA xp they didnt actually earn in that expansion. They used the prior announcement of a new expansion with more AA's to their benefit and exploited the xp!

Or how about anyone who camped on the TS/nek docks the night before EoF came out because they knew that is where they would catch the boat to get there.

Anyone who transmuted any legendary, fabled, or treasured items they acquired before EoF also are exploiting according to people in this thread.

Anyone who had seen a zone in beta or killed even a solo mob in beta knew about that mob and if it would drop a master 100% of the time or not was exploiting by using that information to their advantage!

Oh shit, I exploited when they did the summoner nerf because I had respec'd my aa's to the mage pet ahead of time, shit!

People who had researched classes before they started playing the game to find one they might like? All exploiters because they used public information to further their own means.

All LFG did was take advantage of an opportunity. Its no different than how many people take advantage of hurricanus spawning by killing him before other guilds can each and every week. If you think otherwise, get a clue.

I know my opinion don't mean shit but here it is anyways...

Ishbu is 100% correct in this. ( I know I know -- eating my crow pie right now )

It has been said over and over again. IT WAS FRIGGIN PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE!!! LFG took that public knowledge and took a gamble on it. It isn't like he pull a Martha Stewart here. He didn't get a phone call from on of the developers who said hey guess what - We are ACTUALLY GONNA USE REAL MARKET VALUE.

Sounds to me like someone is just a sore loser who didn't think about doing the same thing and is now crying.

Ish even said that LFG was surprised as shit when he got that much cash back.

Again... LFG CONGRATS!

Calthine · 12-08-2006, 01:04 PM

Somewhere in my definition of exploit seems to be a rider that the information needs to be not publicly available from Official Sources - like Insider Trading, perhaps. Now I personally haven't taken advantage of any public info that might be considered (by some) exploiting (like cornering the Adept market the week before EoF), but I don't hold it against anyone.

Kiara · 12-08-2006, 01:17 PM

It's a personal ethics thing.

He might be okay with it according to his personal ethical code because it was public information.

Someone else might not.

It isn't really possible to hold anyone to the standards one holds themselves to... just results in frustration and being let down.

Illuminator · 12-08-2006, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ily

And all these arguments are exactly why thinking in only black and white are bad. mkay?
Wether something is legal or not does not always justify doing it.
I can think of several things that are legal but yet morally abhorrent to many many people.
I can also think of several illegal things that i personally have no moral issue with what so ever.

So who is right?

I remember when mage adept 3 recipes were being modded to use acrylia clusters instead of rough moonstones. Here I was, camped at the broker for hours loaded with plat, and totally oblivious to the fact that these dirt cheap rares were suddenly going to be worth 4 and 5 times as much with the next update. Yes I was regretful that I hadn't cashed in on it like I easily could have, because by the time I found out, they were all bought up. But then there were the flawed "abraded stomach stones" being dropped from trash mobs that sold for what, 14g apiece? I stopped after I made 8 plat in an hour or two; I just felt like too much of a retard to continue on.

Heck, I'm such a pussy about stuff like that, I didn't even fill out any FEMA forms for money after Wilma went right over my house and trashed my yard and roof and left the neighborhood without a week's worth of power. And I have to be goaded constantly to apply for unemployment checks in between jobs. It just feels too weird to me to get handouts like that.

Everyone has a different boundary line for stuff like this, a different internal measurement of what's earned and ethical and what's not. But no written rules were broken, so no blood needs to be spilled, and nobody here deserves to die.

Kiara · 12-08-2006, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminator

Everyone has a different boundary line for stuff like this, a different internal measurement of what's earned and ethical and what's not. But no written rules were broken, so no blood needs to be spilled, and nobody here deserves to die.

EXACTLY!!!

Ily · 12-08-2006, 01:33 PM

But we have to admit that it is reasonable that someone might see what LFG did as exploit-ish, and hence in violation of the ethics he has himself defined to others.
Especially since LFG is such a big target for this sort of thing.
Do I personally think it was wrong? No
Can I see how someone else would say that LFG broke his own moral standards by doing what he did and profiting? Yes
Do I think that there have been people waiting in the wings for the chance to take a shot at LFG for something? Absolutely
Black and white is bad unless you can accept the opinions and standards of those who see in greys.

Dehah · 12-08-2006, 01:55 PM

Ixnay, since you refused to respond to my post on page 9, I'm going to assume you are done trying to defend youself.

You think you did no wrong, I disagree. Now, let's test your conviction.

I challenge you to go to the official EverQuest 2 Forums and start a thread detailing exactly what you did. If you are really brave, post in the General Gameplay discussion or Tradeskill discussion.

Why should you accept my challenge?

1. You should accept my challenge because you think you are right, and so you have nothing to hide.
2. You should accept my challenge because by starting the thread yourself, you can set the tone for the discussion that will result.
3. You should accept my challenge because if you don't, someone else might start the discussion there, and they will get to set the tone in the manner they desire.

If you so firmly believe you did no wrong at all, then proclaim it to the world on the official EverQuest 2 Forums. After all, if you are in the right, then this wouldn't hurt your public image at all now would it.

Do you have the conviction to back up what you believe is right? Or are you going to waver, and stay here in the comfort of the site you created.