Usildor

Sorry pasted the wrong quote. Was supposed to be two quotes of LFG saying at one time "I made a gamble" then saying "I had nothing to lose"....but don't worry about it. It's been mentioned already. Just pointing out that saying it's a gamble or it was "sport" is crap. Not that it really matters anyway in regards to whether or not you'd call it an exploit.

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LFG

It's not crap at all, and I'm not sure why this concept is so difficult to some people. I had no idea how much the refund was going to be the next day. I also had no idea what the nerf amount would be.

It was certainly possible I was going to only get back fuel costs. It was also possible that the items would be nerfed to the point of being unsellable. Alternately, either combination of those things was also possible: high refund price/bad nerf or low refund price/not so bad nerf. Either combination could have yielded different total values.

Therefore, using powders and fragments to make adornments, then applying those adornments to items, was most certainly a gamble. The final refund value (refund + nerfed item) could have been worth EITHER more or less than the value of the powders and fragments I used to make them. Because those powders and fragments retained value if I didn't use them, since they had alternate uses for adornments that weren't being nerfed.

A gamble is doing something that has an uncertain outcome, hoping you will be better off by doing that than doing nothing. How the fuck is what I did not a gamble then? Reread what I wrote above - I could have either been better or worse off by doing what I did than doing nothing. That is the definition of gambling.

And who the hell are you to tell what is and isn't sport? If I get a gambling or risk type of thrill out of doing something, like I do when driving a motorcycle on the freeway at 100 MPH, that's sport to me. This was sport to me. I didn't and don't need the money, this was PURE sport, a minor thrill in this case, not comparable to a WW first kill on a raid mob, for example, but sport nonetheless. I was taking a risk and betting on an uncertain outcome. That outcome paid off much better than expected. Grats me.

And pardon the fuck out of me if in the thousands of words I've typed in this thread that I used a term inconsistently one fucking time. I've answered more questions and provided more explanations in this thread than in a 1950's McCarthy hearing. You try and defend yourself as I've done here and let's see if you do a perfect job. That's the problem with answering questions and providing detailed information like this - it's inevitable that an armchair sophist will eventually twist your words out of context and use them against you.

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LFG

Explanation 165: http://www.eq2flames.com/showpost.ph...&postcount=165

I'm not spending my Saturday reading and responding to your 3000 word multi-quote posts with 10 different issues. Learn to express yourself in a way that is easier to understand and doesn't waste so much of my time.

Thank you

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LFG

Ok dumbass, I forced myself to read some of your longwinded shit and I'll reply to this totally misinformed and retarded point of yours also. Here is the fucking historical breakdown for your stupid ass:

This person, Dehah, has a long fucking history of being morally longwinded on the issue of tradeskill botting. In fact, I share a similar history.

Neither Dehah nor I have ever ever macroed, botted, cheated, whatever the fuck you want to call it with respect to tradeskills in this game, of that I'm certain.

However, I have longstanding knowledge that Dehah's personal crusade on this issue and mine do not lead to the same application of our personal convictions. I knew before he said it, and have always known, that he will not be guilded with a tradeskill botter based on his personal moral code. That is where he and I differ. So while he and I would both never use a macro program to craft in EQ2, he states he will never be guilded with a tradeskill botter, and I have never said that.

As I clearly stated above, my personal code of ethics doesn't extend that far. I believe the great majority of people in EQ2 do in fact use a macro program to level crafters. Most of the people who do this are good and honest people in every other way except this. While I can't reconcile it personally, I long ago decided that I wasn't going to try and enforce my beliefs on this issue against other people. Hence, my personal outlook on this is "don't ask, don't tell." If you do this shit, I don't want to know about it, but it isn't going to affect my relationship with you as a guild mate, provided you don't flaunt it. I can't save the world or solve the problem with world hunger, and for the same reason I can't personally eliminate macro botting from EQ2.

The bottom line is, Dehah has long taken a strict, fundamentalist position about macroing by others, and my position is pragmatic instead. That's what you didn't know before you made your retarded comment above.

So, he called me a hypocrite for what I did. My defense was to show that he is a bigger hypocrite than he claimed me to be. And the tool I used to establish that was presenting information that he is in fact a hypocrite for guilding with, and remaining guilded with, the biggest botter in the history of the Blackburrow server after saying he would never guild with a botter.

Now tell me Einstein, what fucking part of what I wrote above don't you understand? And how is that inconsistent, dumbass, IT IS PERFECTLY CONSISTENT.

Regarding the individual in his guild I've accused of botting in this thread, and who I've previously accused of botting in the Freeport Crafting channel on the Blackburrow server over 100 times, you say I don't have proof? How many eyewitnesses do you need to say a person is macroing? This was well known by the entire Freeport crafting community, from Nov. 2004 until the crafting channel became much less used on Blackburrow after the end of interdependence in crafting.

I witnessed this conduct on numerous occassions, as did dozens of other people. SoE never did shit about it. I only took this up as a crusade against this person after he moved in on my tradeskill, weaponsmithing, with his 7th or 8th macroed crafting alt. You see, he had the history of massive dumping on the markets while he was leveling through, basically ruining the markets for legitimate crafters who were trying to make a living crafting in a tradeskill. Then, he would enter market agreements with the main crafter in a tradeskill after temporarily destroying the market to establish price stability between them, so they could both sell profitably thereafter. But you know what that was to me? When he moved in on my market by leveling a weaponsmith, I saw that as the same thing as someone sticking their hand in my pocket or demanding protection money. I never had a problem competing with a a legitimate crafter, but you cannot compete with macro bots, they have no labor cost, no skin in the game, and you cannot possibly sell profitably against them. So my problem with this person was extremely well known server wide at the time. For Dehah to say he knows nothing about this at all is shocking to me, to me, that is wilfull blindness.

So to summarize my response to you:

You get better at being a retard! (350/350)

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Sqee

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Usildor

See here's the difference between you and I, since you don't know. You bitch and moan about being "personally attacked" and lump anyone who question your actions into the same category. I am not that person.. I asked how it worked, I didnt go in a personal tirade against you or call you lots of middle school playground names. But I guess that is the limit of your intellectual prowess, so I digress.

I asked how that would work, and now I know. Thank you. If you want to call me a "retard" go ahead.....I'm sure all the other seven year olds are very impressed. However, it is NOT retarded to ask a question if the person doesn't know the background. That's called ignorant, lacking information. I wasn't personally attacking you when I asked. I said just that, how does that work? I hope your epeen feels more engorged after typing your seething response. I am all but ..what...quaking in my boots, over here. Ouch. I been burned. Sizzle.

Maybe if you had a little more reading comprehension you could have skipped right to this part instead of acting like I was a moron, wasting both our times with more responses and just said "he has a long history of being on his own pedastal on moral subjects and said he'd never be guilded with a botter, that's how it works." End of subject. Guess that's too easy. I'll post my other response as a seperate post since you seem to prefer that.

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Usildor

This would have sufficed. You mispoke yourself. It happens.

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Usildor

And finally, the whole purpose of my questions and debate was to try to get you to respond to my main point: how does something being public knowledge make it an exploit and not an exploit? That has been your defense.

Answer: it doesn't. An exploit (as most of you use it) means to cheat. What all those other examples had in common that made them cheating is that they were things in the game that Sony unintentionally created. Bad coding, bugs, what have you. They were mechanics that weren't supposed to exist to begin with, and people knew it and did them anyway. It makes not one iota of difference whether everybody in the game knew about them or not, they weren't supposed to be there.

The refund WAS supposed to be there. Sony did it intentionally. If they weren't smart enough to know people would EXPLOIT the situation, fuck 'em. That's their problem. The fact is, they did it INTENTIONALLY and INTENTIONALLY let everyone know so ahead of time so that they could be sure to equip their adorments to be compensated and not lose out.

THAT is (IMO of course) why this situation is NOT (LFG do please read this) an exploit, and within the confines of how you people use the term "exploit" to mean cheating....

LFG did not use an exploit.


Period.

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LFG

When you make comments like this about me and what I write, you should not act surprised and butt-hurt when I turn up the heat on you.

And my style of writing has nothing to do with "intellectual prowess". I like to curse in my writing on occasion. I think it makes things more flavorful, just like adding spice to food.

I also never hold a grudge after coming to terms with a person, except with people like Emma on Blackburrow, who continue to talk shit about me over a year after I thought we had come to terms in our previous dispute. Well in this case, justice, like Emma, has been served.

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Usildor

Wasn't referring to cursing....was referring to things like "retard." The self-contradiction was a joke, poking fun at you for contradicting yourself. That's ok, this IS a flame forum after all, and I can handle far more than you have thrown out here. Just saying....don't lump everyone on one side of the fence or the other. I said way back on one of the first pages I didn't think what you did was an exploit. My questions were specific, and (I thought) fairly non-confrontational. Perhaps I suck at conveying my thoughts. /shrug

Don't worry LFG, if my sarcastic comments about being "burned" weren't evidence enough....I'm certainly not feeling "butt-hurt" as you put it. I've been around flame forums far too long for what you've said to anyone in this thread to be seen by me as any real flames or harsh.


I do find it humorous that the person that WAS personally attacking you has had nothing to say lately. If he did indeed throw himself up on a soapbox saying he'd never be guilded with a botter....I'd love to see what happens there.

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