firamas

Point: Having multiple grades to spells is a valid game design concept that allows devs the ability to balance content around certain expectations. Solo content expects the player to have app4/AD1, heroic content expects AD3/AD1s, and epic content expects full AD3's at a minimum. It's not like you can't complete this content if you don't have that minimum level, it just requires more precision elsewhere.

Alternatives to this would be to either remove all grading to spells, limiting (but not removing) the ability to balance content, or to go to a completely skill (AA-like) system. Darkfall online uses something like this. There are no levels and no spell scrolls, you just gain skill points which are then used to spec down trees and tailor your character however you want. Both are valid alternatives, but of course not the way EQ2 was designed (and EQ2's method is perfectly valid as well).

Point: Players should be expected to obtain current tier spells through the completion of current tier content. App4's from common crafting, AD1's from easy mobs, AD3's from rare crafting, and M1's from epic content (NO MASTERS FROM HEROIC CONTENT - THEY ARE FABLED FUCKING ITEMS AND NEED TO BE TREATED AS SUCH - THE BASELINE HAS BEEN SKEWED IN FAVOR OF SUBSCRIPTIONS OVER GAME BALANCE).

With that in mind, non-upgraded Masters should be made available through some alternative means. People who start a character (or betray across classes) after a tier is greyed out, and still need spells from that tier, should not have to go through complex exploits to obtain them. THIS is the only place I support a system like Illu's proposed vendor NPC for spells.

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Oh, no!

Cexi

A system similliar to PvP would be nice. Turn in a level 52 master and get a level 52 master.

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sig1043

Maybe its not the same people complaining, but whenever there is a game update that makes things easier/more convenient, like the change to the swash epic last encounter, combination of cures, or even not having to dismount to climb a wall or ride a griffon, you get people moaning about how the game is on ez mode now.

Now you got people who want non-upgrade skills to be easily obtainable...

It's fine the way it is. For people who didn't get all the M1's on their new alts or post ROK characters, so what. You have a little extra challenge and veterans had a slight advantage in obtaining those spells over you. A M1 vs an easily obtainable AD3 version isn't going to break the game for you on the 2 or so skills that are non-upgrades.

Even if you are a hard core raider, getting all Masters shouldn't be a given. And if you are a hard core raider, paying for that one rare M1 should be within your means...

Dunno if I agree with fabled=raid only. Rare drops on heroic stuff seems reasonable to me. Not so sure on fabled off of solo stuff tho...but in the realm of role playing, it could be feasible for a nobody to have an exquisite item through treachery, secret delivery, or unknowing luck (ala Golem or Bilbo Baggins).

Sorry for being off-topic. I got savante just by luck in a PUG instance.

Apollodon

Oakmiser

Got Protecting Grove(Zomg, did it make much of a difference, nope spell still sucks in raids and 90% of group content) in a courts raid.

Got Sylvan Waters(Heal) upgrade in a courts raid,mucho happyo about that. Then RoK came out and it got upgraded, lawl.

dakkota

I said fuck that shit, broker 4 lyfe.

Bought my lvl 52 non-upgraded aoe snare for about 3 plat cause some dork had it listed the one day i actually thought "hey, I wonder if numbing cold actually shows up on the broker."

this was mid eof

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Serias

m1's I've recently "past 4 weeks" bought off broker


Umbral Trap m1 - 3plat
Murderous Design - 48plat
Unyielding Benediction - 100plat

firamas

Masters are the highest tier of spell. There is no upgrading past them. They are the "raid gear" of spells. The endgame. With that in mind, it's already incredibly easy (relative to the difficulty and coordination it takes to get raid gear) to get M1 books.

The reason that system was put in place on PvP was because the broker markets could not (at that time) even see the other factions goods. Nor can you directly trade items cross faction. It was implemented to prevent people getting a "wasted" master (what good is a templar master to a FP group?) and not having anything to do with it besides transmuting it. And you shouldn't be expected to transmute CURRENT TIER masters...

I don't see any need to put that in place on PVE. There is a completely free market economy... let it work. And just as a reminder, its not a free turn in -- it costs you twice the vendor value of the book to transcribe it, and you cannot transcribe neutral class masters.

To be honest, with the addition of the RoK brokers and being able to see all faction's goods, that system shouldnt really be necessary anymore. It's not like there's even a chance of losing plat in PvP while buying it either... FP can buy from Gorowyn in immunity, and Q's can run from the bank to the broker in about 15 steps in the hall in TG.

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Oh, no!

Illuminator

I'm curious if people here think only a raider should be able to have things like Manaburn or Time Compression or Tashiana or Bladedance or Tortoise Shell or etc etc.

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Oh shit I just had a memwipe, why is retarded uncle Roger still designing raids for this game again?
Some players might bot against encounters but it seems like he bots the encounter design!

Pinski

Considering how useless Bladedance and Tortoise Shell are for a non-raider, and how useless Manaburn is for a non-raider as well.

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Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Dissolution on Nektulos
Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Confirmed on Unrest