Uyaem

Articles, schmarticles, you supplied the logical argument yourself.
It's a game where people play and (in-)directly compete (PvE/PvP), thus for the sake of equality all players should start at square one.
End of discussion.

In fact, that whole RMT thing gets even dumber the very moment certain gear can only be acquired through real world currency.

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Rinion

All players do start at square one. It is the login screen, beyond that is fair game.

But hey let's try it your way using your flawed version of equality.

Player X only has 4 hours a day he is able to play.
Player Y has up to 16 hours a day to play.

Player Y has the advantage and therefore should be limited to play only 4 hours per a day as well.

See how your ideal doesn't work now?

Equality ends at the login screen. Thank god it does to! I'd go crazy if myself and everyone else was a carbon copy of you!

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"Before one can identify anything as "gray", one has to know what is black and what is white. In the field of morality, this means that one must first identify what is good and what is evil. And when a man has ascertained that one alternative is good and the other evil, he has no justification for choosing a mixture. " Ayn Rand

kenman

Everybody has 24 hours they can play -- They choose not to, the reason they choose so is meaningless.
Buying a character or item with real life money is really no different than botting a character or cheating in a single player game.

What's so hard with actually earning stuff in-game instead? It's really just pathetic to have to cheat in a game as easy as EQ2. /shrug

And really, I don't see how it's jealousy at all. Do I get jealous when somebody turns on Godmode and beats Battletoads in less time than I can, or do I laugh at his shitty ass for being unable to do it legit?

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Kenman, 70 Berserker
Last Time Played: November 18, 2007

Woot!

Rinion

This is bang on!

You may not get jealous, but you also don't get outraged and demand he be banned from playing Battletoads. Do you?

Exactly my point. Why would someone get outraged and demand someone else be banned because they gained an unfair advantage?

Maybe, because they feel it was unfair to them that the RMT guys had an advantage while they non-rmt guys didn't.
All the while guys like you laugh it off and just point out that they are scrubs and move on.

There are plenty of things that should be bannable offenses, and are, but RMT isn't one of them. (excluding game disrupting farmers/spammers of course. But those are a product of the RMT underground)



on a side note: What scrub came up with the term "unfair advantage"?
By definition all Advantages are unfair, that's why they are advantages.

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"Before one can identify anything as "gray", one has to know what is black and what is white. In the field of morality, this means that one must first identify what is good and what is evil. And when a man has ascertained that one alternative is good and the other evil, he has no justification for choosing a mixture. " Ayn Rand

Uyaem

Within the game, everyone has the same chances of success.
Bring in real life factors, and suddenly the game is easy for those with a loose wallet.

While of course the ability to spend more time is an advantage, think of it this way:
Take two equally skilled tennis players, one of them buys their way into the finals, because he can or because he's busy on the day of the quarterfinals.
How is that equal?

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Rinion

Last I checked you could not buy your way into raid guilds and end game content. Many guilds will recruit an under geared skilled player then a Geared out scrub that had tohave bought his shit.

No, the proper analogy to tennis players would be. Player A was decked out in the best tennis gear money could buy and player B was in moderate quality gear unable to afford the best. While both made it to the finals, it was argued player A only made it because his gear was alot better then player B's.
Sounds rediculous when you say that about tennis players now doesn't it?
Anyone with half a brain would understand tennis, like EQ2, is a game that rewards based on the skill of the player. Their ability to understand the game's mechanics and use them to the best of their ability are what counts.


The fact raid guilds are able to sell items is a flaw in the game, and not an RMT caused symptom.

Just another reason WoW > eq2 I guess. only people present at the raid are able to loot Epics.

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"Before one can identify anything as "gray", one has to know what is black and what is white. In the field of morality, this means that one must first identify what is good and what is evil. And when a man has ascertained that one alternative is good and the other evil, he has no justification for choosing a mixture. " Ayn Rand

firamas

To those people who consider RMT to be cheating because EQ2 is a "competitive arena", I propose this hypothetical situation in another competitive arena:

A 5/3 house is for sale, listed at a $325k asking price. It's an exquisite residence, lakefront property, good schools such in the area, and is probably worth at least 30% more than it's asking price (hard times in the real estate market, eh?), but the owner just needs to get rid of it. You and your spouse both work, but just barely make enough to cover the cost of that mortgage. You have 4 kids and need the space in this house. The location is perfect. You are negotiating with the current owner and get him down to $305k. THEN, a day before you're going to sign the papers, another buyer comes in and offers a $340k buyout bid. He wants that house badly, as an investment property. He is 32 years old, single, and independently weathly from a $3m inheritence that he received a few years ago. He also works 75+ hours a week at a big name marketing firm and makes a pretty healthy 6 figure salary. He gets the house, and you're back to the drawing board. You spend another 2 months trying to find a spacious enough residence in that area, but eventually have to settle for a different location and a smaller, more expensive house. Life sucks.

So now answer me this: Do you think he deserves that house? Are you angry with him because he had more financial stability? In the competitive market, he was better positioned to get what he wanted. Is this fair to you? Is this fair to him? Is this fair to the seller?

Simple economics, guys. Time = money, and money = time. It's a tradeoff, you offer $$ for goods and services. You pay to have your car washed or a landscaping service, because you don't want to spend the time to do it yourselves. You pay to have a fancy dinner prepared for you in a restaurant, because you don't have the time (or possibly the expertise or access to materials) to do it yourself. No one stands in their driveway with a hose and a sponge and mentally shits on their friends because they chose to pay $25 to have their cars washed professionally instead. Choices. Time. Money. Services. Goods.

The entire world is a "competitive arena", so if you have any big hangups about RMT in gaming I'd recommending getting the fuck over yourself sooner rather than later, because it's coming whether you want it or not.

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Athropos Cynosure --Red Eye Mountain-- 40 Witchunter [Radiant]
Entropie N'evrending --Unrest-- 80 Mystic [Confirmed] ...retired
Become Death --Nagafen-- 80 Brigand [The Kraken] ...retired
Firamas Slytheryn --Unrest-- 80 Bruiser [Enlightened Dark] ...retired
Firamas Shadowstrike --Tarew Marr-- 70 Monk [Enlightened Dark] ...retired

Echelon

Are we implying this game is actually hard?

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Klickmart: Where E-thugs go shopping.

"It's not about gear anymore it's about brain cells, and unfortunately Avatars don't drop those"

Crabbok

I like that..... Never heard of a fair advantage myself.

Maybe if I was golfing against tiger woods and he decided he'd play using a whiffle ball bat, instead of golf clubs.... that could give me a fair advantage... but i doubt it.

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Crabbok

Nice post Firamas, you made some interesting points.

The game as a whole? I wouldn't consider EQ2 to be hard, but I will say there are certain ASPECTS of it that are hard. Some raid encounters that are hard, getting 24 people to cooperate and stop watching the lakers game can be hard. Finding out who's got the hourglass on trakanon and wiping your raid can be hard.

Some things about it can be hard.

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