Calthine

I'm gonna piss off LFG by saying that my Weaponsmith is still making decent money with me just playing her, well, even less than casually. She's not T7 yet though.

I don't care so much that we can't make Uber Fabled anymore (though it was nice), but SoE's not yet seeing that adventurers don't want step-up equipment, which is what 95% of all T7 mastercrafted is. Actually, what 90% of all Mastercrafted is after about Tier 3 or so.

After the reversal of the decision to add T6 harvests to T7 zones (based on player feeback), rush re-addition of writs (based on player screaming) and the reversal of decision on the removeal of TS instances I'm forced to conclude that they really care about crafters, but geez... it's like they can't see the forest for the trees or something.

LFG

Come back and say the class isn't broken when you are at the level cap please

Do you know how many people over the last few years have said exactly what you just said? It's the same thing every time: "I don't know what you guys are talking about, I'm selling weapons". Yes, you are selling weapons to lower level players and for people to use on alts.

Level to the cap and sell current tier weapons, you will then discover the same thing as everyone before you: you can't. At all. None.

There is no purpose for a T7 weaponsmith in game. Materially better weapons than you can make with Xego can be purchased from the broker for 20 g.

The reason you can find a market below T7 is not as many people are hunting in T3 through 6. With fewer drops, there aren't weapons on the market in those lower tiers that exceed the quality of what you can make with a rare from those tiers. People are buying rare crafted from you at lower levels simply because they cannot purchase a better weapon on the broker.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but you aren't a level 70 adventurer on your main. It costs much less for you to gear your character and play EQ2 than it does for a level 70. Sure, I could waste my time trying to serve the twink and noob market, but I would lose money doing that, since I can make far more at my level by adventuring than backselling to lower tiers.

"Backselling" is not an acceptable longterm strategy for crafters. There needs to be a market at the highest tier. There is not one at highest tier now, at all, zip, nada, zero, none. I'm telling you, nobody is stupid enough to purchase a lower quality item for 50 g when when they can purchase a better quality item for 20 g. And that is the situation now.

They wasted their time revamping weaponsmithing. You may look at the higher stats on the new weapons and think they appear to be better, but they aren't. Over 90 percent of what weaponsmiths can sell is to tanks and scouts. Tanks and scouts at the higher levels are more sophisticated than lower level players. Really, the only important stat on a weapon is the damage rating. Anyone with a clue will pick higher damage over stats. An extra 10 to 20 str doesn't make up for a lower damage rating.

The damage rating on a Xegonite one hander is 58. You can't equip that weapon until level 62.

The damage rating on a Legendary Blade of the Bixies is 62. You can equip that weapon at level 58. You can usually find that weapon on the broker, and more than one on both sides, for less than 20 g.

I'm telling you, regardless of better stats on the Xego one hander, only a fool would buy a Xego at level 62. Instead, they will go from the Blade of the Bixies or similar at level 58, and upgrade that at level 64 to a one hander with a 65 damage rating that can also be purchased on the broker for less than the cost of a Xego cluster.

I know that you mean well and have significant expertise in crafting. But please do not attempt to argue that weaponsmithing is a viable craft until you reach level 70 and try and sell on the market.

When you level up, I promise you'll end up saying the same thing as 100 or more players that I've previously had this same extremely tired and worn out discussion with. You will end up admitting you were wrong and agreeing with me.

You can't get more broken than EQ2 weaponsmithing, period. It is a waste of time and a joke in EQ2, unless you think that spending your entire career in EQ2 selling one or more expansions behind the current one is a fun and productive way to play this game. I'm sorry, I do not.

I don't even know why I attempt to argue about this anymore, it's a huge waste of time, in over two years they've never gotten it right or even close. Nothing they've done has given me any faith this situation will improve in the future, it's been a total waste of hundreds of hours of my life. Unless by some miracle they've planned to coordinate the right hand and the left hand for EoF, it will be even worse for crafters, since there is no level increase.

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"Bottom line: we're not all being honest with ourselves here." Become, Kraken forums

LFG

Calthine, I hope you don't think by the tone of what I wrote that I'm angry or annoyed at you in any way. Since the beginning of DoF and the totally broken abomination of what was released then and all the problems since, it's just been impossible for me to talk about crafting without sounding like an bitter and frustrated person. That's why I no longer craft.

Thanks :smiley-happy:

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"Bottom line: we're not all being honest with ourselves here." Become, Kraken forums

Kurizo

Not to mention you could craft things that were WORTH WHILE.

Rinion

they used to be worthwhile in this game to, but then afew noobs wanted craftignto be easier and now its all one click combines that suck out the ass.

Crafting should be like it originally was, hard recipes that you have to get subcombines from the other classes, fuck easy 1 click combines and fuck geomancy.

the problem with good items comeing from crafting is Risk VS Reward, its abut the only thing they have right atm.

ANYONE can get a rare and im sure thousands are harvested Daily, because any random node can have one. there is really nothing "RARE" about them. therefore there shouldnt be anything "RARE" about whats made from them.

there is really nothing rare about this game =/ I hate instancing.

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"Before one can identify anything as "gray", one has to know what is black and what is white. In the field of morality, this means that one must first identify what is good and what is evil. And when a man has ascertained that one alternative is good and the other evil, he has no justification for choosing a mixture. " Ayn Rand

Calthine

Now. Without disagreeing that the T7 stuff (at the very least) needs serious help...

Why do so many capped crafters assume that they can only make T7?? If you only make T7 and T7 is borked, then MAKE OTHER TIERS. I guarentee T5 and down still sell.

One Tier doth not a Whole Class Make!

If the crafter can't get out of his/her rut and expand horizons beyond thier current Tier (especially now that harvesting has rediculously high results) then they're not playing the business part of the class to it's full potential. Is that what you're calling backselling? Ki's making mad money that way, it most certanily *is* a valid strategy.

And no, LFG, you didn't piss me off, you're not mad at me. However, I think you've had your needle stuck here for WAY TO LONG and you need a dose of open mind. You decided with DoF that it was broke, made up your mind, slapped a couple coats of quick-drying cement on it, and never looked back. Attitudes like that are killing us. Not ALL crafted is crap, but the pervasive world-think that exists 'cause people saw a nerf and have never checked back is definately having an effect.

T7 does not sell as well as us olde-school Artisans are used to. Nothing does anymore. However, Mastercrafted DOES sell, and is not all crap. And if you'd get your head unstuck long enough to dust Ixnay off and play him instead of just bitching you've been nerfed, you might discover that.


And I'm not pointing this specificly at LFG. This goes for everyone who never gave the new system a chance. It's like quitting at LU 13 'cause someone said your class was nerf'd without trying to relearn it.


I say all that with great respect to LFG (and he knows it)

clint

I currently have a tailor at level 70, an alchemist who is currently level 66 and a weaponsmith who is currently rotting at somewhere below level 50.

The first thing I need to express is that I don't think any crafter levels up to higher tiers in order to sell lower tier goods. It just makes no sense. Arguing that we can is not really relevant. Sure we can but that's not a selling point for the game. "Now introducing Kingdom of Sky where you will be able to gain levels in crafting up to 70 so you can still sell ruckas hex dolls!!"

Now with respect to my individual experience, my tailor can sell items in any tier. I can't sell every item for a decent markup in each tier but there is usually something I can sell to make it worthwhile. However I can't just spend 2 hours making things to sell because then it'll just sit on the broker for a long time. I have many stacks of rares that I hold onto simply because I don't want to saturate the market. This aspect was made far worse by the current revamp. Since there is a limit to how many items I can make since nothing is consumable, being able to make them faster means I craft less with this character. It also means I play the game less and thus feel less attached to the game.

My alchemist sells pretty much everything he makes as he grinds. I still have some adept 4s and adept 3s for sale but they will sell eventually. I have no fear of buying rares to make things. However, I won't make money selling spells but I can make as many poisons/potions as I want and I know they will all sell so it makes "grinding" feel like much less of a grind. Of course at lower levels the markup is tiny so I don't bother making anything else. I accept that as the cost of making consumables.

My weaponsmith - what can I say about him that Ixnay hasn't already addressed? I am a well known crafter on my server and all sales go through my main (tailor). I generally price my goods to be around the lowest on the market and adjust prices to be in line with the rares. Buying ebon to sell weapons is extremely risky, even when ebon was dirt cheap for a while and I bought a stack of them. I might sell 1 weapon a week. I don't expect sales to get much better though T6 is actually a good market for my tailor.

Now I need to go through T6 with ore that is ridiculously expensive and cobalt that is about 4-5 times more expensive than xegonite. And all this with so few recipes that I will need to make a ton of non-rare weapons to vendor that will cost me 2 gold in raws. Spending time to harvest the ore I need is just not feasible nor is it economical. Some time ago I obtained a stack of xegonite at very low cost when I was leveling my weaponsmith through t4/5 (the good old days) but right now I am thinking of having them made into sconces.

Oh and my weaponsmith is a ranger but at least the ranger can betray to a useful class.

Octilius

You forget that the main reason people craft is for income, without having to adventure. The amount of cash you make as a Tier7 Armorsmith, weaponsmith is that there are better items for cheaper than what it is to craft, this isn't the same for back tiers because people who farm items overprice those items (most previous tier mob-dropped weapons are more expensive than current tier mob-dropped weapons).

The problem comes when the stats are so much worse on the crafted stuff, and its more expensive to get an item crafted (rare + fuels + crafter fee). No one buys tier 7 because it sucks, in tier 5 it was a little different where Ebon was just short of fabled (which it was RARE and its how it should be). In t6 rares seemed to come up more, and cobalt wasn't the Ebon of t6. It was made even worse when SoE revamped the crafting system to make rare item crafted stuff GARBAGE. Pure garbage, I found better treasured drops, and even if i spent the time to gather rares, I sure as hell wasn't making armor with them, I already had better things than what these put out.

To make crafting useful again you need something like, RARE rares, I used to harvest for hours and would consider myself EXTREMELY lucky to get one rare. Thats how a rare should be. Treasured > Legendary > Fabled where Legendary is also rare-crafted armor / weapons. Then crafters have a chance again, until then, unless you are supplying spells, food, or decorating houses, there is no point to crafting.

Also just to make my point clear, in previous tiers, the mastercrafted items dont suck so much, but this DOESNT mean they are worth doing. I don't want to go back and craft a t4 item for someone - why? because its not worth my time, I can't charge a newbie for the fuel + my cost and still make a reasonable amount of money. Which is what craftings purpose in my eyes is (An alternative form to gain money instead of adventurign). People leveling up undercut the market so horribly that they just try and sell to make the money they spent back, ruining the market for those that actually use it to make money. Make a way for the market to not be overrun and then MAYBE you will have income from all tiers.

Korina

Preach it, Calthine.

Tiers 2 & 3 are a gold mine. Plents of alts need quick upgrades.

I don't even pay much attention to T7. Players at that level have several other options to choose from.

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Korixa of Antonia Bayle
Wizard, Woodworker, Tinkerer

Calthine

No. That may be the main reason YOU craft, but it is not the only reason for crafting. There are lots of people who craft because they like crafting, not because they want Mad Platz. I think we can all agree that Adventuring is the way to Mad Platz. Crafting Mad Platz was going to change once all the stuff we were making wasn't new any more and once the Adventurers discovered all the Uber Loot.