How would you handle smart loot - Page 3

Kall · 09-04-2008, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoss

I'm not in VP yet, so someone tell me about the gems. Are they trash drops, are they tradeable? Is it feasible to have people bid DKP for the gems instead of the patterns? Or perhaps, if you say the item is shit and get it for free, you simply don't get the gems and can therefore never make the piece.

Tradeable trash drops and 1 drops off every named.

Bidding dkp on gems would be a huge waste of time due to the frequency in which they drop.

Technically, you could force the pattern to someone and withhold the gems to prevent it from dropping again and so they couldn't use the item, although I'm sure they could just buy them from another guild pretty cheaply and 1-up your DKP system.

PS. Officer assigned loot blows.

firamas · 09-04-2008, 01:22 PM

Gems drop randomly (and quite often) off trash, and are a guaranteed drop off nameds as well. Unless the RNG has been dicking with you [+no other guilds on server selling gems on broker], they are not the limiting variable in this equation.

Also, to the guy who makes people take patterns for free, craft the trashy piece of gear, and then said they enforce a "NO USE" role... what the FUCK? How high is your minimum dkp bid if people aren't willing to at least go in for that? Answer: IT IS TOO HIGH. I'll echo the "babysitter" comment someone else made. That just sounds like a hugely distrustful way to run a high end raid guild.

firamas · 09-04-2008, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kall

PS. Officer assigned loot blows.

I saw merit loot work exceptionally well in my EQ1 guild, Enlightened Dark -- now a casual raid guild on Unrest -- but used to be the top guild on our server in EQ1, was right up there with the top WW guilds for a lot of the content.

It requires an officer corps that is large enough (one guy in a leader rule usually can't do it alone*) and attentive enough to do it fairly. Selecting your officers as trustworthy, high attendance, class archetype leaders works well in this regard. They have to be willing to not get "buddy buddy" with anyone so there's no appearance of impropriety. We had that, and it worked damn well. In some ways and for some guild roster types I actually prefer officer merit over DKP... but again, the people in charge need to be responsible, intelligent, and have the best interest of the GUILD in mind at all times. Some people do not get the concept of what a guild (or any team) really is, and they make poor leaders. A well tuned DKP system certainly works in any situation, but I'll never say that officer merit fails just on principle.

*I believe Strike's system is similar to this, and it seemed to work well. Didn't Jaraxx just pretty much assign all the loot where he best saw fit?

Kall · 09-04-2008, 01:46 PM

If you do officer assigned loot the right way, it's dkp without the bidding except you don't get to choose what order you get stuff.

Odii · 09-04-2008, 01:53 PM

Our guild we're forcing people to pay min bid for the pieces. When we hit vp we decided to do a loot rotation with the set pieces and have everyone pay minimum bid. Personally i still prefer the bidding, and i am the DKP officer, but it has worked out very well so far.

Our minimum bid for a fabled item is 25dkp. We earn 2dkp per hour, and we raid 12 hours a week, this works out to almost 1 minimum bid per week in DKP.

Masters we give to the classes that the spell is for, and let them sort it out, either by random, or by rotation, or by whatever other means they want. we've had zero issues with this.

With 7 set pieces at 25dkp a piece thats 175dkp divided by 2 dkp per hour = 87.5 hours divided by 12 a week = ~7.3 weeks to pay for a full set.

There are a couple of pieces i don't want / will never use, but will pick them up just to not screw other people that are on the raid. What makes them stronger, makes me stronger.

If our minimum bid is too much to handle, either they need to show up more, Value their dkp more on other items, or not raid. We will allow members to go negative on items that people don't want... and will force people negative for set pieces... they have to re-gain minimum bid to bid on a piece of loot that others want.

Sonorod · 09-04-2008, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenarie

This couldn't possibly work. If it did then once one person of a class got a drop it would never drop again and thus your second and third class x wouldn't ever be able to get thier pieces.

My understanding of the smart-loot system was that it first decided what to drop...incinerated pattern for example, then checked the raid for players that can use, meaning they do not have the final piece nor the patter. If all of those players have one of those then it chooses the next pattern type and runs the same check with the next logical users.

The above would indicate that for a piece not to drop every raid member would have to have the pattern. This would not be smart at all.

Can anyone clarify? Aren't the class pieces from t1-3 the same way?

Pinski · 09-04-2008, 02:02 PM

Don't you see a problem there with your system at all? How is raiding 12.5 hours a week for 1 being able to bid the MINIMIUM on 1 item fair at all? Your system is terrible for anybody who is new or who blows away a huge chunk of their DKP on real items. I mean, I'm a new app to your guild, and a set piece drops, and what's this, I now have negative DKP after raiding through VP with you, and will likely never get out of negative anytime soon. You pretty much force people to say hrm, I can take this pattern, or I can save my DKP for an item that I really want to drop because of how little DKP I earn in a week. Hrm, EASY CHOICE. Fuck the pattern, hello overpowered item #101. A week to earn enough DKP for 1 item, lol, talk about the way to keep people with an insane amount of DKP always having that insane amount of DKP.

Fomka · 09-04-2008, 02:05 PM

DKP cap ftw, I really miss it now

firamas · 09-04-2008, 02:10 PM

Yep, that's a retardedly dumb ratio of HourlyEarned to MinimumBid. Try setting your minimum at 2 hours worth of DKP, and let the free market forces take over. People will bid eachother up until they no longer think an item is worth it. If that amount naturally happens to fall in around 2-3 hours worth of DKP, then you are pissing off your entire roster by making them pay orders of magnitude more. It's just clumsy DKP economics.

If you want to control DKP-inflation then CAP PEOPLE SOMEWHERE. They will spend their DKP when it's worth it to them, trust me. And don't set the cap retardedly high either. Somewhere between 200-400 hours worth of reserve DKP is PLENTY.

**edit: Let me add something... and this is very important... a system that encourages people to hoard DKP and then blow everything on 1 awesome item IS NOT A HEALTHY LOOT SYSTEM. In most cases, taking 3, 4 or 5+ moderate/good upgrades benefits the guild more than you getting that 1 awesome item.

Peldaar · 09-04-2008, 02:40 PM

We let people dibs on the pattern for full points. If nobody dibs then it is assigned to someone for free but they don't get the gems for it. If they later decide they want the item then in order to get the gems they have to pay the DKP.