Classes that try too hard to be something else - Page 5

Silver · 02-01-2007, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manyak

what about wizards who insist they shouldnt cast firigid gift too much cuz it sucks for their DPS? :P

nah but u should at least get time compression, its a shame putting it on anyone other than a wizard

-Then that wizard is a dumbasss. Reminds me of furies who don't heal the necro's when they lifeburn because the fury is trying to DPS!!! (Sorry but you're 50dps that you lose out on from healing a necro is not worth the 10% gear damage they take if you don't heal)
-TC, if only we were lucky enough to have one in the mage group and not haste buffing the melee's.

Iryssinia · 02-02-2007, 05:52 AM

DPS templars are wonderful for group play. I really enjoyed it in KoS, and the EoF AA's look like fun. On heroic stuff, being able to pump out 1k DPS as the group healer and still keep the tank up is fun.

Unfortunately, it gimps us for raids, so I switched to standard spec pretty soon after I became the MT group templar.

What would be nice is for the designers to make more than one spec for a lot of classes viable for raiding. Or, two spec sets that you could flip back and forth between (I'd grind another 100 AA to have a DPS and healing spec to flip back and forth between for cash farming and raiding).

Either way, I think it's a shame, and poor design, that so many classes get so many fun options to choose from, but only one path leads to the effectiveness that matters so much in raid play.

Illuminator · 02-03-2007, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iryssinia

Either way, I think it's a shame, and poor design, that so many classes get so many fun options to choose from, but only one path leads to the effectiveness that matters so much in raid play.

Hey, you knew what you were getting into when you chose your class. Personally I have NFI what could possibly be intrinsicly fun about healing.

ForsakenFalcon · 02-04-2007, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminator

Hey, you knew what you were getting into when you chose your class. Personally I have NFI what could possibly be intrinsicly fun about healing.

I had no idear what i was choseing when I pick to be a Sin, Some reason I do not feel like a highly trained profession agile steath killer..

However I agree with Your playing a healer statement, I dunno if it's the healing class's themself's or the way combat is in game, Cause all I know is FFXI & RO I could play a healer and have a blast (espically ffxi cause tanking was done by multiply ppls not just 1) but in this game I can't seem to get any healer I'v rolled pass 25 lol's.

DarkAngel · 02-04-2007, 02:29 PM

I'm with all the people who have mentioned Furies. My main is a fury, and my main is first and foremost a healer. I only throw my nukes when the fight is smooth and very little healing is needed. However, even then I do not go nuke happy. Raids can have a funny way of looking like its going in one smooth direction, but the shit can hit the fan if one person does something stupid. So I like to conserve pwr in the event of something like that.

I have seen furies who do the nuke happy thing and it irrates me to no end. All that does in a raid situation is cause the other healers have to take up that slack. As well as when in a raid with another fury like that, they put me in tell hell, by trying to dominate the HoT's so it looks like they are healing. Cast HoT, nuke nuke nuke nuke, Cast Hot, nuke nuke...well you get the idea. Casting a HoT every now and again and no other heals, isn't truely healing. SLACKERS! heh

Iryssinia · 02-05-2007, 03:47 AM

I'm not just talking about my spec, Lumi. Nearly all classes have at least another spec that's -fun- to take, but gimps them for raiding. (Brigand/Swash tank or thief spec, Inquisitor Battle Cleric, etc). If everyone has to take the same spec because one track offers so much more than any other track, it's a rather obvious game design flaw or a waste of dev time to have even put in those other tracks.

Hey, I know I'm a healer and therefore I heal. But other games have pulled this off (DAoC, WoW). Different specs can have different, useful roles. Here, there's an obvious track for every class that people would be stupid not to take (with few exceptions). That's not choices, that's teasing.

Pinski · 02-05-2007, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iryssinia

I'm not just talking about my spec, Lumi. Nearly all classes have at least another spec that's -fun- to take, but gimps them for raiding. (Brigand/Swash tank or thief spec, Inquisitor Battle Cleric, etc). If everyone has to take the same spec because one track offers so much more than any other track, it's a rather obvious game design flaw or a waste of dev time to have even put in those other tracks.

Hey, I know I'm a healer and therefore I heal. But other games have pulled this off (DAoC, WoW). Different specs can have different, useful roles. Here, there's an obvious track for every class that people would be stupid not to take (with few exceptions). That's not choices, that's teasing.

Generally that happens when people min/max. If you don't want to min/max, then don't min/max. Don't like it, then too fucking bad and cry about something else. Min/maxing exists in every game. You don't recruit a tank-spec'd Rogue to do the job of a DPS Class. Raids always pigeonhole people into a specific role. Saying WoW has pulled this off shows how dumb you are, you need to learn more about WoW before commenting on how it pulls off having a Shadow Priest in a raid, when you're better off with any other class but a Shadow Priest because they are a complete waste of space in a raid.

Iryssinia · 02-05-2007, 08:23 AM

I said nothing about Shadow Priests. My WoW knowledge might be a touch outdated, but I know that, at least pre-TBC, both protection (for main tanking) and DPS specced (...duh) warriors were useful on raids, the druid's specs made them a truly useful jack-of-a-trades for different situations (and probably the best designed jack-of-all-trades style class in an MMO yet, since classes of that type are notoriously weak), a paladin could spec for either healing or tanking and do a passable job (patch healing or offtanking) at either...things of that sort.

Even then, to use your shadow priest example, WoW balances for both PvP and PvE. Shadow priests (again, dated knowledge) were formindable 1v1 opponents, and paired with nearly any melee class made a powerful 2 person ganking duo. Can you point me out any niche in EQ2's design (soloing, heroic, epic) that say...the cleric AGI line, or the rogue INT line is any sort of useful?

You're absolutely correct that min-maxing exists in every game, but when a game using a class based system offers a method for specializing, EQ2 is the only one that comes to mind that only one specialization is considered useful and standard (expect in rare cases, like the debate between DPS, tank, and hybrid SKs), whereas in other games, like DAoC, multiple specs were viable, even if you had to min-max for that spec.

It's obvious the devs of EQ2 have the capability to think outside the box when it comes to having classes do non-standard raid roles on raid encounters (3P, Chel, Tactician's Armor, etc). There's no reason that the same innovative thinking can't be used to come up with a specialization system that actually works like one, instead of having everyone use the same spec with the others being pariah.

Naeca · 02-05-2007, 10:10 AM

I think all the good clerics spec'd battle priest. It's the 21st century... things have changed now.

Naeca · 02-05-2007, 10:11 AM

So if my warlock spec'd for an increase item trigger rate, and equip my Misty Protector.. thus increasing the rate it procs the heal, does that make me spec for... mage-priest?