Illucide's idea to combine TS classes - please post in support of this GREAT idea! - Page 2

kyros · 02-16-2007, 08:32 AM

HAHAHA... so they finally gave up on trying to make the weaponsmith actually count for something....

you can argue all the fuck you want, but i am a weaponsmith. let me tell you how many people are interested in my adornments... or when i did advertise, how many people wanted to buy my weapons. there weren't many. this has not been a lucrative profession, and with the advent of more common named mobs and readily available better weapons, the crafted weapon is more of something you do when you level an alt than something that you give a real fuck about. it's easy and "gets you by" while most of the treasured weapons that drop in the tier will probably have comparable stats.

the only thing weaponsmiths are good for is a quick fix for getting alts and lower level characters weapons so that you don't have to farm or hope for drops or hawk the broker.

step in the right direction to merge them? i don't give a fuck, honestly.

Deson · 02-16-2007, 08:54 AM

No question they screwed up in not designing the classes behind viability. My whole issue is that all this does is shift problems, not solve anything. If anything it has the potential of making things worse for armorers by increasing their competition for a product that really isn't much better off than weapons. I'd rather they not change things than do something that has an actual effect of nothing.

As far as carps and woodworkers, carps have their own specialty market and woodworkers are in near the same boat as weapon smiths. This combine will flood the niche market of carpentry and when the ammo changes hit, make a market that's already going to be saturated even more so.

I like the narrowing of the field but, anything short of a full redesign is cosmetic and doesn't solve anything. Actually, the most tangible benefit this has is getting those classes to stop whining about sages since carps/woodworkers would be on par with other scholars and the blacksmiths will match sages.

Wump · 02-16-2007, 08:56 AM

I had a 65 Weaponsmith and rerolled him and made a 70 tailor.

Nuff said.

Onimaro · 02-16-2007, 08:57 AM

Personally i dont agree with this unless they provide a revamp of the mixes for augments. nowdays since the release of augments is not what cool tradeskills are there out there its what ones can i make money at in the end game. Currently it seems Armor's and Tailors make a killing here with the augments. adding another source of income to these would be unreasonable. ( Yes i know tailor wasnt part of the discussion but it worked with my example)

Cupcake · 02-16-2007, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFG

I was the 4th weaponsmith to 50 gamewide, and the 1st to 60. Weaponsmithing has never been viable in game at the highest tier, except at the beginning of T6 before Cobalt was nerfed.

Saying that mastercrafted weapons aren't viable to "the majority" of players is misleading, because they aren't viable to *any* players. The entire craft has been a big fat huge waste of time - it's been a joke. Since the first week of KoS, you've been able to purchase a vastly superior legendary weapon on the broker for less than the price of a xegonite cluster. You can get a 62 dmg weapon on the broker for 10 g, the best mastercrafted you can make is 58 dmg.

Just because mastercrafted is better than available drops in T1 thru 4 doesn't mean the idea is bad and shouldn't be implemented. Any suggestion that a max level crafter should make shit for noobies because what he can make for max level players isn't fit to vendor is horseshit. The only people that suggest that haven't tried it.

I've been living with this bullshit in game almost 3 years now. I've explained and re-explained this shit until I'm blue in the face. For the reasons Illucide stated in what he wrote, weaponsmithing wilil NEVER be, can NEVER be, viable in this game.

Do you want to fucking pretend for another 3 years that this can somehow be magically fixed? It cannot.

Good grief, just finally fix this bullshit by doing what armor and weaponsmiths have been begging for the last two years - combine the fucking classes.

Ok pal, keep your calm and try again without the swearing. Maybe then I'll do more than just browse over your replies, correction, rants and read them instead. Obviously this is a touchy subject for you, but can you perhaps even consider other peoples thoughts on this? Mastercrafted weapons ARE viable for people. Want to know how I know that? Because I've used them extensively myself.

So what does that mean? It means that your theory of mastercrafted weapons not being viable for EVERYONE is wrong. I admit, mastercrafted weapons are only a stepping stone from one tier to the next. You get them at the start and discard them when you get better drops, but isn't this the case with all tradeskills? Why yes, yes it is.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying weaponsmiths didn't get the short straw because they did. What I'm saying is there are a lot more ways to approach the problem than by simply merging classes.

Why not give everyone a TS respec? This can be done either with keeping your current level or losing them and starting again. How about letting people take up two professions? How about giving weaponsmiths more things to craft or the ability to enhance dropped weapons? There are a multitude of ways they can help all crafters including weaponsmiths. Merging classes is not, however, one of the better ideas.

LFG · 02-16-2007, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cupcake

I admit, mastercrafted weapons are only a stepping stone from one tier to the next. You get them at the start and discard them when you get better drops, but isn't this the case with all tradeskills? Why yes, yes it is.

You really don't know what you're talking about, and you've just proved that.

Unless you're saying that you do the opposite of the best thing to do, which would be to intentionally chose an inferior weapon at a higher cost to a superior weapon at a lower cost. You are saying that given a choice between a Blade of the Bixies at 10 g and a Xegonite Long Sword at 50 g, you would purchase the Xegonite Long Sword.

You are assuming that Xegonite weapons are better than any other Tier 7 weapon in game except treasured, and that simply isn't true.

Xegonite weapons are only a "stepping stone", as you put it, if you are stepping onto the short bus.

I do agree with you about one thing though - a tradeskill respec would be an acceptable alternative to combining the classes. I think it's in the best interest of the game to reduce the current number of classes, because there simply is not, and never will be, enough crafted items to spread between them. But if they won't do that, I believe we are owed a tradeskill respec.

Firza · 02-16-2007, 09:18 AM

I gave up long ago to make money as carpenter (eventhough it can be done).

The only reason why I would sponsor mixing carpenter and woodworker is that I know carpenters will never have more then 4 recipes per tier. Mostly less.

On the other hand I hope they will not be merged because it will give SOE leeway to just forget about that nasty furniture stuff and make like 1 recipe only per level for it, and the rest woodworker stuff.

Pronoia · 02-16-2007, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cupcake

Ok pal, keep your calm and try again without the swearing. Maybe then I'll do more than just browse over your replies, correction, rants and read them instead. Obviously this is a touchy subject for you, but can you perhaps even consider other peoples thoughts on this? Mastercrafted weapons ARE viable for people. Want to know how I know that? Because I've used them extensively myself.

So what does that mean? It means that your theory of mastercrafted weapons not being viable for EVERYONE is wrong. I admit, mastercrafted weapons are only a stepping stone from one tier to the next. You get them at the start and discard them when you get better drops, but isn't this the case with all tradeskills? Why yes, yes it is.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying weaponsmiths didn't get the short straw because they did. What I'm saying is there are a lot more ways to approach the problem than by simply merging classes.

Why not give everyone a TS respec? This can be done either with keeping your current level or losing them and starting again. How about letting people take up two professions? How about giving weaponsmiths more things to craft or the ability to enhance dropped weapons? There are a multitude of ways they can help all crafters including weaponsmiths. Merging classes is not, however, one of the better ideas.

You are wrong. there are a number of tradeskills that produce goods that are not discarded before getting better including; potions, poisons, many charms / totems provisions etc. But you already knew that given you have a Sage and a Prov amongst your toons.

Armourers are possibly viable if you have a large enough popultion of casual players / raiders with alts. Weaponsmiths are a joke.

The reason people are advocating the quick and dirty solution of combining is because large scale tradeskill revamps are unlikely. All you will see at this point in terms of attempts to 'fix' classes is the swapping over of some recipes. The trouble is, the logical swaps won't fix the exisitnig imbalances with demand for goods and ease of levelling based on sheer quantities of recipes available to some classes. Given the magnitude of even that 'quick fix' it seems unlikely to me.

You said yourself "It's obvious to everyone the developers have no love for crafting". If that's your opinion, do you really believe some sort of massive revamp is likely at this stage of the game's life (and it would have to be massive if 'balance' amongst the tradeskill classes it so be achieved)?

Pro.

Rinion · 02-16-2007, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFG

The weaponsmith class has never been viable - and never will be as a standalone class.

IMO, this is a great idea.

your right, weapons smiths suck. i was one. it was bad enough that weapon sells were already limited but then T7 happened and sells were virtually 0.

They should combine alot of shit in that game maybe this will be a step in the right direction, tlel me when they do it to the Adventure classes then maybe ill re-roll lol.

one of the major problems i've really had is WHY THE FUCK can a carpenter make a repait kit that any Tradeskill un-talented Adventurer can use?

WHY arent they only useable by high level weaponsmiths and armorsmiths? Why does a skilless adventurer and a carpenter know more about repairing Weapons and armor then the smiths do?

Its fucking retarded.

Snark · 02-16-2007, 11:36 AM

I was proud to be a weaponsmith back in tier5 when I was the only one in the guild who could craft fabled weapons off contested, which people -did- want. (sortof).

Just bring back that

Trash in emerald halls sounds like a perfect start to have dropping these components.