Illucide's idea to combine TS classes - please post in support of this GREAT idea! - Page 3

Slyver · 02-16-2007, 11:47 AM

The problem is nothing they can make is better than any loot drops. Make the items desirable that tradeskillers can make.

Combining them would fix nothing. It would allow people to level faster that is it. It will not make there items any more desireable than they are now.

Ever · 02-16-2007, 11:58 AM

Whether they can, or intend to or not is someone elses issue however my opinion is.. Don't try to merge them and think hey, they're fixed .. your just making twice as many people being able to make twice as much junk (in terms of armorer/weaponsmith) .. Woodworker and carpenter have no business being merged, they both work with wood .. so? Give the four classes more recipes, reason to want to contact your local ws/armorer/carp/ww etc .. don't just sweep it under the rug and say Okay, we fixed it!

Choadley · 02-16-2007, 12:09 PM

I would be in favor of this change or a respec as well.

Armoring isn't even remotely viable at T7 with all the group instances and nameds floating around. Much of the treasured gear that drops is better since launch of KoS. Combine that with the Claymore line rewards and T7 crafting is crap. Weaponsmiths would at least obtain more recipes and usefulness at lower tiers. Possibility of a respec? I would make my armorer a Jeweler or Sage to go with my Alchemist. Scholars are so much more useful.

Woodworkers...eh...I have a 30s one that really is only useful for totems. Not sure combining with Carpentry would help much, judging by complaints by Carpenters. Instances like this, a respec seems better. I'd delete the character and reroll for the crafting side, if it wasn't a useful T7 healer on a second account.

Back when this game started, the vision for crafting wasn't bad, it just didn't have the staffing/care put in to it that it was going to take to pull it off. When you made crafted armor and weapons, people were able to use them. There weren't legendary drops everywhere with easy access or instances dropping low level fabled items. The game moved on and left smiths behind.

As much as I'd like to respec my crafting decisions that I made 2 years ago, based on the viability at the time, it would seem that a number of TS classes would become unplayed.

CoLDMTL · 02-16-2007, 01:42 PM

I am completely in favor of the suggested changes.

4 recipes per level makes them just not worth the time, my respects to people like Calthine who grind em out.

While it would personally make me cry over the hours of wasted time, I would almost be in favor of ripping it down to the three archetypes (Outfitter, Craftsman, Scholar), but that is a bit of overkill :D

those 4 classes need a lot of help though, and this could work.

Grevious · 02-16-2007, 01:55 PM

What they could do is add some legendary type recipes where you can get a mold or something from a boss mob in a instance. Then trade that to a tradeskiller and get a legendary weapon, jewelry, armor or what have you made. Let that be on par if not a tad better then the legendary drops. Same can be said with raid content but fabled ofcourse and make it off the boss mobs again and a truly nice item. Those t5 rare player made items were a good change in the way loot was.

Red Rock Candy · 02-16-2007, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyros

you can argue all the fuck you want, but i am a weaponsmith. let me tell you how many people are interested in my adornments... or when i did advertise, how many people wanted to buy my weapons. there weren't many

This is because the best adornments for you to sell are fabled. Fabled adornments are the most cost ineffective items you can buy. Only a very small portion of the community will shell out even 5p for a fabled adornment, I bet less know what the damn ingredients even are.

I get weaponsmiths to make me the occult clasp all the time which I turn around and sell for 10-15p on the broker. Where were you when I was looking for a weaponsmith to make me 2 occult clasps to use myself? Hell, if you want I'll start paying YOU the 40g per to make my fabled weaponsmith adornments.

I really don't give a damn if they merge those classes, I have a 70 Armorer and 70 Carpenter, yay more shit for me to make. But my question is what about those out there that have 70s of each class? Will they just get butt fucked and have two toons that do the same thing?

Deson · 02-16-2007, 03:08 PM

If it's a good enough fix, it's worth losing a class/ gaining redundant ones. What's the point in having a class that can't move any product and has no room for growth? Besides the sentimental value that is? If a change has a solid long term benefit them sentimentality is not a good enough reason to block it.

Illucide, to me at least, said that the classes were forced into a design based more on numbers than viability. I think if he and the dev team are serious about addressing this, attachment to a name and time spent that's already reaped benefits is not a good reason to block it. The only reason I'm against it is because it doesn't go far enough.

Pinski · 02-16-2007, 03:12 PM

Well, the thing is woodworkers are about to have a huge market come next GU. While Carpenters don't have a big market, they can still sell repair kits, which if you need to only repair from 0 to 40%, are still cheaper than using a Mender Bot.

So, the thing about combining Woodworkers and Carpenters, needs to be delayed until after the next update when Woodworkers have a big market to attack on.

LFG · 02-16-2007, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Rock Candy

But my question is what about those out there that have 70s of each class? Will they just get butt fucked and have two toons that do the same thing?

I have both a 70 weaponsmith and a 70 armorer, and I'm still in favor of combining those classes.

It's in the best interest of the game and other players - what's in the best interest of people with multiple characters and accounts is far less important.

What is important is people who only have one toon or one account - that is the majority playerbase. Those people who have any of those four classes as their main character, and ESPECIALLY weaponsmiths, have been screwed by EQ2 since the day they dinged level 20 as a crafter and their ill-fated class choice.

Introducing and maintaining a class in a MMO includes an implied promise by the developers that the class will be viable within the game, that it will have SOME legitimate purpose and value to players.

That just IS NOT TRUE with weaponsmithing in EQ2. Many of us relied upon the the unspoken promise from SoE that if we spent thousands of hours maxing our skill in a TS class, we would eventually get some benefit from doing that in game. That never happened.

And before any noob says "thousands of hours lol, what are you talking about", no I'm not exaggerating. As the 4th weaponsmith to 50 game wide, it took me grinding 10 to 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, for almost 3 months. I realize you can level a crafter to 70 in a week now, and I did it once in about 10 days part time to prove a point, but that's not how things started out.

Of all the things in this game, I've felt more disappointment, and more like I'd been cheated, by tradeskills than by anything else. And the core of my dissatisfaction has been the fact that after all the time I invested, my craft was worthless as a path within this game. There was no point to it, it should have never been made into its own class in the first place.

Weaponsmithing should either be combined with armorsmithing, or the class should simply be removed from game. I will have great respect for the producers if they just finally admit this mistake and do something to fix it now. The right thing to do is to stop doing nothing, and for God's sake do something finally. Either combine these classes, or just give everyone a tradeskill respec choice.

People need to stop thinking in terms of what's best for them personally, and think about what's in the best interest of this game. Doing as Illucide suggested is in the game's best interest, and it should be done sooner rather than later. Put this to bed, finally.

Deson · 02-16-2007, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinski

Well, the thing is woodworkers are about to have a huge market come next GU. While Carpenters don't have a big market, they can still sell repair kits, which if you need to only repair from 0 to 40%, are still cheaper than using a Mender Bot.

So, the thing about combining Woodworkers and Carpenters, needs to be delayed until after the next update when Woodworkers have a big market to attack on.

The market is overrated. Because of the volume we'll be putting out, the reduction in usage and the volume of woodworkers we're about to hit provisioner territory- a flooded market working for razor thin profit. With the announced changes I can crank out 6000 arrows an hour- and I craft in LFG blocks of time and have surpluses to back me in every tier. In a week if I had the mind to I could destroy any market ammo has and not even blink. That's likely to happen to t7 on every server. Due to the fact that arrows can't be swapped in the quiver(at least for some reason my ranger couldn't) and that summoned will work just fine as they do now, lower tier markets aren't likely to be gold mines either because bluntly a ranger would have to be wealthy or stupid to by that many arrows at a profitable price.