Gear scaling system — any reason to keep playing pve for next 8 months? - Page 11

Slippery · 07-02-2009, 09:58 AM

I will never understand the whole "Game balance was destroyed by itemization" argument. It is so flawed. So what if a person is doing 50k dps? That number mean absolutely nothing when thrown around in a vacuum. It is all relative to how much hp mobs have, which is a completely arbitrary number. It really doesn't matter how much hp mobs have. Are fights too long or short? That is the only thing that matters. Right now the fight durations are fine.

There are also things not capped and ways for itemization to move laterally, there is always room for growth.

Hoss · 07-02-2009, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firamas

The ones making the policy decisions should be those who best understand game theory, and specifically game balance in the historical context of the game in question. That should theoretically be a dev team and an advisory council of certain selected player volunteers. We actually have that in EQ2; there's a private board on SoE's main forums where a select few discuss these issues directly with the devs.

As Dr Phil would say, "HOW'S THAT WORKING FOR YA?"

You sound like an idiot saying that what we really need to fix this game is ... well golly its exactly what we have. If you think the masses are too ignorant to make decisions, then the obvious solution is to educate them. I think you're just afraid that with open discussion you'll discover that very few people want the game exactly like you want it. If thats the case, you should move along to another game.

Pinski · 07-02-2009, 11:33 AM

Wait, I didn't even notice that. EQ2 doesn't have that at all. Communication is a 2-way method, and 1 side isn't that great at communicating back.

Deson · 07-02-2009, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinski

Wait, I didn't even notice that. EQ2 doesn't have that at all. Communication is a 2-way method, and 1 side isn't that great at communicating back.

This.

There is a reason people like Rothgar posts and Domino(and Friznik before her) is seen as awesome. It's also no accident that some of the dumbest idea executions in game were done almost entirely by dictate with the leads, for whatever reason, not seeing what was right there staring at them.

Widem · 07-02-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slippery

I will never understand the whole "Game balance was destroyed by itemization" argument. It is so flawed. So what if a person is doing 50k dps? That number mean absolutely nothing when thrown around in a vacuum. It is all relative to how much hp mobs have, which is a completely arbitrary number. It really doesn't matter how much hp mobs have. Are fights too long or short? That is the only thing that matters. Right now the fight durations are fine.

There are also things not capped and ways for itemization to move laterally, there is always room for growth.

Thats b/c you just took the end result of itemization and used it as a peg. Its not about the 50k dps. Its about the 100% spell crit. 100% double attack. 100% heal crit etc. etc.

Can you name me stats that can be increased for benefit?

Not to mention your comment has nothing to do with game balance. 50k dps is normal in one game and 5k dps normal in another, but those have nothing to do with game balance. Itemization breaking content are items such as REH, water sprinkler gloves, Slippers of Balance, djinn masters cuirass, etc. etc. They either give a power that will never be able to be built upon b/c they already trancend tiers in usefullnes or are exclusively given to a class which infringes on the core compentancy of another class. Furthermore items such as the BTC or certain fabled instance items break the balance of progression. Like how shitty the WOE x4 items are for how difficult the encounters are. Thats game balance. not the difference between 50k and 100k dps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoss

As Dr Phil would say, "HOW'S THAT WORKING FOR YA?"

You sound like an idiot saying that what we really need to fix this game is ... well golly its exactly what we have. If you think the masses are too ignorant to make decisions, then the obvious solution is to educate them. I think you're just afraid that with open discussion you'll discover that very few people want the game exactly like you want it. If thats the case, you should move along to another game.

How the hell can you even say this when you don't even understand how to read charts.

Thanks for proving Become correct.

Gaige · 07-02-2009, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Widem

Its about the 100% spell crit. 100% double attack. 100% heal crit etc. etc.

What it is truly about is the developers inability to design items with foresight.

That is why people are at 100% spell crit, 100% double attack, 100% heal crit.

As I've said a million times, until the mentality and design philosophies of the designers making and itemizing this content change, it doesn't matter how many times they revamp the mechanics.

This proposed system is terrible. Everyone knows its terrible. Some are just arguing that its necessary which is true. I'm just pissed off that its necessary. You'd think after 5 expansions they would learn how to itemize. You'd think after putting in diminishing returns because of these problems, they'd learn how to itemize, you'd think they wouldn't introduce a modifier and then allow people to cap it the next expansion.

It all comes down to: this is their fault. They should've seen this coming. We're now being punished because they have to code the game around their stupidity.

maccool · 07-02-2009, 01:19 PM

Wouldn't it be a gazillion times easier just to give higher level mobs (beyond 85 or so) some degree of crit mit/resist, or DA resist, at a certain level, so that you really need to have well over 100% crit or DA to actually ensure that you crit all the time? I'm often at 110% now to ensure I get 100% crits. At level 90, you might need something like 135% crit total on gear to get 100% actual criticals and thus have an incentive to replace your current stuff, i.e. replace level 80 uber +6 - +8 percent crit items with +9, +10 level 90 stuff and so on.

Geez, that seems so easy in concept. Killing high level mobs is harder b/c they resist crit and da and you dps less against them. And you don't have these wacky scenarios where you get worse as you level up. DPS against current raid mobs stays the same, and you become more and more capable of defeating the new higher level mobs as you get better gear.

Is there some reason this wouldn't work?

Hoss · 07-02-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Widem

How the hell can you even say this when you don't even understand how to read charts.

Thanks for proving Become correct.

I don't know where you get your information sir, but you are incorrect.

What the hell is a 'Become'? Obscure reference is obscure.

razieh · 07-02-2009, 01:35 PM

Okay! First of all can anyone tell me why they are up in arms over this? Have you forgot that our gear gets nerfed EVERY expansion and EVERY expansion they have to redo itemization? Essentially all this is will do is make it automated.

The one thing that should change about this system though is how it is done. All stats should be put on a skill system. Meaning that six critical chance at level ten is equal to six percent. Six critical chance at level twenty is equal to three percent. For those of you who still do not understand, it takes one critical chance to equal one percent then when you level it now takes two critical chance to do what one did previously. Now these numbers are not spot on it is just the concept, but that is how they should work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Widem

Thanks for proving Become correct.

Lets hope this does not happen to often.

Quote:

Originally Posted by maccool

Wouldn't it be a gazillion times easier just to give higher level mobs (beyond 85 or so) some degree of crit mit/resist, or DA resist, at a certain level, so that you really need to have well over 100% crit or DA to actually ensure that you crit all the time? I'm often at 110% now to ensure I get 100% crits. At level 90, you might need something like 135% crit total on gear to get 100% actual criticals and thus have an incentive to replace your current stuff, i.e. replace level 80 uber +6 - +8 percent crit items with +9, +10 level 90 stuff and so on.

Geez, that seems so easy in concept. Killing high level mobs is harder b/c they resist crit and da and you dps less against them. And you don't have these wacky scenarios where you get worse as you level up. DPS against current raid mobs stays the same, and you become more and more capable of defeating the new higher level mobs as you get better gear.

Is there some reason this wouldn't work?

WORST IDEA EVER! This is the exact same thing as gear scaling, except in the most unclear way possible. Gear and stat scaling should be clear easy to see, easy to understand and easy to do. Your concept fits none of those.

Deson · 07-02-2009, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoss

I don't know where you get your information sir, but you are incorrect.

What the hell is a 'Become'? Obscure reference is obscure.

Firamas's character name. Used to be in his side profile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by razieh

Okay! First of all can anyone tell me why they are up in arms over this? Have you forgot that our gear gets nerfed EVERY expansion and EVERY expansion they have to redo itemization? Essentially all this is will do is make it automated.

The one thing that should change about this system though is how it is done. All stats should be put on a skill system. Meaning that six critical chance at level ten is equal to six percent. Six critical chance at level twenty is equal to three percent. For those of you who still do not understand, it takes one critical chance to equal one percent then when you level it now takes two critical chance. Now these numbers are not spot on it is just the concept, but that is how they should work.

I just don't like it for the same reason Gage does-- it changes nothing as long as they keep screwing up and the current proposal as I understand it nerfs you as you level. I have no issue with the system working like mit ( once they fix the display) where item effectiveness is determined by mob level.