Crabbok

^^^ retard.

Were not comaplining about getting better items. We are complaining about getting WORSE items and being Forced to use them. Now go put a shotgun in your mouth and pull the trigger.

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Kizee

Alot of the problem is that SoE is trying to keep the raiders and casuals close together so now everybody reaches the cap.

There SHOULD be a HUGE HUGE differance in power from heroic instance person and a end game raider.

I probably will quit again just before expansion since I really don't want to pay and grind to 90 to become less powerful. WTF kinda carrot is that?

firamas

So you think the L90 legendary gear is going to be really close to L90 fabled gear? Where the fuck did you get that out of the whole gear scaling w/ level theory? This is about making previous tier gear not as viable as current tier.

You think everyone is going to reach stat caps? Caps that are specifically being addressed as part of this update because they're too easy to reach?

I'm about ready to give up on this thread. A few of you have good points, and some of you are straight up idiots like this guy. I don't think I'm going to get my point across any more clearly to either of these groups.

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Oh, no!

Deson

The biggest problem with being smarter than everyone is that a lot of the time you just prove how dumb you really are.

The point being made is everyone is at cap because of gear like t2 shard gear. Not that I agree or disagree with it but it is a fact that even so-called casual players who don't raid touch or get otherwise incredibly close to caps. The itemization philosophy in play is part of the problem that makes a global nerf necessary.

Actually, if they plan on dropping stat proliferation/values with this change, what we've been told so far is even dumber than you since it'll be an obvious, painful and incongruent nerf to hit caps on everything at 80, only to be at ~50% of them at 90. If that's the plan they should just be going back and globally nerfing the biggest offending items.

Please give up on this thread, it'll probably be the smartest thing you've done since you started posting.

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Kizee

No, I am saying with everybody at the caps it makes the problem even worse. There should be more of a gap between heroic and raiders than there is.

If I use the previous expansions as a baseline then fuck yeah the level 90 legendary shit will be pretty damn close to some of the level 90 fabled.

If you can't see that after going through with this update nobody will be sitting at caps like they are at 90 THEREFORE WEAKER then they are at 80.....then I don't know what to tell you.

firamas

There's already a pretty huge gap between heroic and raid gear... maybe not entry level raid gear, but the high end stuff is vastly superior.

edit/add: I think the progression that we have right now flows smoothly (i.e. solo gear to do heroic content, heroic gear to get started on raiding, basic raid gear to do the harder stuff). So what we've got going on right now (and in recent history) within the tier feels balanced. If they can keep that relative relationship between treasured:legendary:fabled intact in T9 I think everything will be alright.

I really don't think the level based supercession of old gear is going to be as big of a deal in the big picture as some people want to believe. Even if they fuck that up badly, the worst case scenario is you still plod along to L90 and then you follow the same treasured->legendary->fabled track, drawing exclusively from the T9 gear pool. Is that really a big enough deal to cry about? I don't believe it is.

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Oh, no!

Crabbok

Have you even really made a point? You've complained about raiders and their sense of entitlement and you've claimed that we'll level to 90, and have to re-gear out in T9 gear just like every other level cap increase... but if there is a point to be made other than that I must have missed it.

I think you fail to see our point. All you have to do is put aside your bias, and your hatred for people who see things differently than you, and it's plain to see.

Because of lvl 80 gear scaling down to only be 1/3 as good as it was it allows sony to make us weaker than we were in T8, relative to current tier mobs. if peopel are at caps now, they can effectively cut all of our gear in half, and it'll still seem like an upgrade.

Why is this a problem? For one, it's just plain lazy. yes I do feel that I coudl easily design better scaling loot, rather than revert to a system like this. For two, I'm one of those players who likes to go back and solo older content, or mentor/powerlevel people, and take a great deal of satisfaction in the overall powerlevel of the gear i've worked for. By doing this, they essentially remove my reason for playing, as it seems I'll never be able to become more powerful than in TSO. Seems like this is the cap.

Also, can anyone name another MMo in history that reduced the stats on your gear as you level up? I mean seriously, lets say I'm soloing a hard mob, and I just barely beat him... and boom, I level up... now suddenly my gear will loose 6% of all it's stats across the board each level... so now that I have levelled up, I can no longer kill the mob I just killed when I was lower level. Does that make sense to anyone?

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Deson

Clarify the reality that if things work the way you describe, the only progression occurs at progressive caps. That means we get t8 all over again where all that matters is cap. No gear gained between 80-90 means anything. They can't seriously do what they did with RoK where some rewards were below 70 but still upgrades. This makes itemization that much more stringent for a culture that since launch has had trouble with it.If they get it right it'll be lateral upgrades every few levels to maintain the appearance of constant power. If they "fuck it up that badly" it's 10 levels of hell and the last time I saw that, I saw casuals say fuck EQ2 and leave, myself included.

Again, forget raiders and think of all the grouping casuals pissed because of RoK, all the "I want tank and spank" and solo/rarely group casuals that didn't like TSO and ask how they may feel about their time consuming t2 gear disappearing and everyone else close to those categories. I haven't seen so much public annoyance with the EQ franchise since GoD and OoW and right when WoW and EQ2 hit, EQ saw huge chunks of players leave. The last thing the devs should want is a mass exodus waiting to happen and changes like this plus all the previous frustrations help create that.You don't want to have a base that exists solely because everyone else sucks because eventually, someone worth a shit comes along.

Edit: Meant to ask, when you talk about game theory are you talking about the supposed economic "equilibrium" tool or something completely different?

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Flipmode

I do get what you are saying. The explosion of stats have left the devs with 2 alternatives. Create more stats or nerf all the other items so we have somewhere to go progression wise. The first option creates a nightmare for balance and future itemization. The second option leaves players less powerful then they were before. Basically, they screwed themselves either way.

The second option would work if:

1. The dev team was worth a shit
2. They knew how to properly itemize in the first place (and if they havent proven they have no clue what they are doing by now, then idk what to say to you)
3. The people in charge of class balance werent so overtly biased
4. The dev team actually execised a little forethought before they make changes. (They have no long term vision for EQ2. They never did. Game was built to scale to lvl 200 my ass)
5. They went back and tuned every single solo/group/raid encounter in the game to compensate for the lost player power.
6. They got rid of the diminishing returns curves.

Most players know those things are unlikely to happen with their small dev team and that the dev team is too stupid to pull all that off, hence the bitching about this change.

I can stomach nerfs to my class. I played enchanters before all the faggots like Sharpcharm rolled them to be FoTM. What we had happen to us was a repeated nerfing telling us "x" ability was to powerful to be had and not intended, only to be given back to us in the very next expansion. That is not progress. Thats why we get mad.

Ajjantis

lol@firamas

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Originally Posted by Laume
I understood that LFG had admitted that he was formerly an addict, which isn't something anyone should be insulted for.