Is it legal to use a script that makes a macro? - Page 2

feldon30 · 07-26-2009, 09:58 AM

I think what draws the line is 3rd party scripts that do some sort of action.

Pinkski, why do you have a problem with 3rd party applications that read a log file or read the status of the game, interpret it, and present this information in a different way and interpret it? The Mana Sacrifice plugin. ProfitUI click-to-cure. Calling out curses. Calling out Autoattacks.

It is clear that SoE designs the game expecting raiders to have ACT, and at Fan Faire in response to people asking for more things to be parsed like Cures and buffs, EQ2 devs said "no problem!"

We only have like 7 seconds to Cure Curse on Strange Stalker. That's 2 second Vent lag, or 2 seconds for the healer to notice the Curse in the raid window, 2 sec for a healer to target the person, 2 sec cast time, that doesn't leave much wiggle room. You're telling me that's not designed with ACT and other scripts in mind?

I don't see how interpreting and repackaging data that EQ2 itself provides could be considered verboten.

Now, if there was a 3rd party plugin that triggered in-game actions unattended, like a crafting app, or an auto-curing app that doesn't require clicking, then yes you've gone over the line.

Illuminator · 07-26-2009, 11:25 AM

Maybe the best thing for the game is for Aditu to discontinue ACT.

Githil · 07-26-2009, 12:03 PM

why? so sony will hire her to make an official one? even if she dis-continued it, others are still out there. her's is just the best(imo).

Pinski · 07-26-2009, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feldon30

Pinski, why do you have a problem with 3rd party applications that read a log file or read the status of the game, interpret it, and present this information in a different way and interpret it? The Mana Sacrifice plugin. ProfitUI click-to-cure. Calling out curses. Calling out Autoattacks.

I don't have a problem with the "ProfitUI" Click-to-cure(just fyi, they didn't create that, and how is that even a 3rd party program anyway? Please explain, I'm against it because I think it's a waste of time for anything besides raid curing, it's slower, bulkier, and way more prone to user error than clicking 2 buttons). As for what it is being explained in this thread, notice how it says it modifies a macro.(it doesn't say it uses do_file_commands, it says it modifies the macro).

Also, the scripts that were used to create the auto-attack bar before EQ2 supported in-game were against the EULA. Just ask Razieh about it, completely against the EULA. Please reread the thread before crying about what I said, notice how I am saying it shouldn't be modifying and running things automatically for you, but you just skip all that and take what information you want.

If anything, imo, the only thing ACT should be doing is timing AEs and parsing. Everything else is just retarded shit for people who need to learn how to play. Sure it's cool ideas, but it takes away from the spirit of the game. They are made for the retarded people who can't look at a detrimental effect window every now and then. That is all they are made for. It gets old seeing how all these things are made to make the game a total joke.

Also, just because you are at the window doesn't make it within the EULA, Aditu's auto-cure in-game UI feature was told to be breaking the EULA, yet oddly enough all it did was use things in-game to do so.

feldon30 · 07-26-2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinski

Please reread the thread before crying about what I said, notice how I am saying it shouldn't be modifying and running things automatically for you, but you just skip all that and take what information you want.

If anything, imo, the only thing ACT should be doing is timing AEs and parsing. Everything else is just retarded shit for people who need to learn how to play. Sure it's cool ideas, but it takes away from the spirit of the game. They are made for the retarded people who can't look at a detrimental effect window every now and then. That is all they are made for. It gets old seeing how all these things are made to make the game a total joke.

Also, just because you are at the window doesn't make it within the EULA, Aditu's auto-cure in-game UI feature was told to be breaking the EULA, yet oddly enough all it did was use things in-game to do so.

I guess I will "take what information I want" and quote the relevant bits that I want to comment on here, since I'm already accused of it anyway.

If we are talking about any script that takes "action" within EQ2 such as automatic curing, writing a macro, or otherwise interacting with the game in any way then clearly that is against EULA.

But an external means of "talking" in EQ2 seems a grey area to me. I say that because we can talk in guild chat through Station website, we can use Station launcher to use voice in-game, they're working on being able to interface with EQ2 Vivox voice chat through a cell phone, through other games, etc.. In short, there are getting to be a ton of ways to "talk" within EQ2 from outside of EQ2. And SoE hasn't taken any action to stop this.

First, we had auto-attacks that make a beep sound. Then we have popup windows to display timers and someone in-game calls out the AoE timers. Then we have distributed systems where everyone can see the AoE timers and curses.

It sounds to me like you don't agree with these intrusions of outside scripts "talking" within the game and announcing things that need curing, etc. and that they dumb down the game. But that's not the same as EULA violations.

And personally, I think overuse of curses and fail conditions don't do anything to improve the game either. I'd much rather have challenging content that plays to the strengths of the classes, instead of individual points of failure doing tasks which have nothing to do with playing EQ2.

The Switchmaster fight makes it clear that someone at SoE thinks Venril Sathir was an "awesomely designed fight." *Shudder*

razieh · 07-26-2009, 03:16 PM

This is CLEARLY against the EULA, trying to argue that is insane. He is using a third party program to GREP the file, then turn around and create a macro in the third party program. This is not an in game macro on your hot bar, this is a macro making intelligent choices for you completely separate of EQ2. (though not very smart choices)

Would the following be against the EULA? The program reads the log files and creates macros based on what is going on in game. All you need to do as the user is spam F2 over and over, the program will cast for you based on what is going on in your group.

feldon30 · 07-26-2009, 03:26 PM

I view this as an exploit just FYI:
http://www.eq2flames.com/zones-popul...ng-script.html

bigron · 07-26-2009, 06:35 PM

And to all the people that say or think you need act to play the game.... stop being retarded .Everything in game can be done without act that includes timeing AEs as well as countering detrimentials or following any script period.

The game isnt designed around ACT and ACT isnt needed....as well as ventrilio isnt needed either.

oxyl · 07-26-2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinski

Yes. They are. They are definitely against the spirit of the game, and not within the rules.

This isn't a think, it is a definite. Interacting with the game from a 3rd party application is most definitely not within the rules. There is no arguing that.

...then no one in their right mind is playing "legally" so lock yer doors and load yer guns - they be comin for ya. oh - moar bewbs plz

*edit - pinski i hear ya

Hoss · 07-26-2009, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinski

I don't have a problem with the "ProfitUI" Click-to-cure(just fyi, they didn't create that, and how is that even a 3rd party program anyway? Please explain, I'm against it because I think it's a waste of time for anything besides raid curing, it's slower, bulkier, and way more prone to user error than clicking 2 buttons).

Wow, you're pretty fucking stupid. Its more error prone to click one button than to click two. And it takes more time to click one button than it does to click two

Quote:

Originally Posted by razieh

This is CLEARLY against the EULA, trying to argue that is insane. He is using a third party program to GREP the file, then turn around and create a macro in the third party program. This is not an in game macro on your hot bar, this is a macro making intelligent choices for you completely separate of EQ2. (though not very smart choices)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fungie

It takes no in-game action (like a TS bot or a harvest bot). All it does is makes a macro.

Probably a good analogy for what this bot is that it figure out which raid mob you're on and make a macro for you, such as "I've got hourglass!", "Need Salt!", etc.

Is that legal?

I dunno, he specifically says it takes no in game action. So I don't follow you raz. Sounds like he is still going to click the button on his hotbar.

BTW fungie, if your example is really what you are trying to accomplish, how about making a generic macro.

/shout I have some malady specific to this fight.