Does the subsciption model demotivate SoE? - Page 3

mafoe · 09-10-2009, 02:31 PM

Can we stop the fucking QQ about this downtime already?

Show me a list of hours when the servers were down in the last 6 months during your server's standard playing times. If that adds up to more than 2 days, you win. Otherwise, stop the fucking QQ.

Yes, amazon and ebay do not have these drastic downtimes, but then again, not having these downtimes costs shitloads of money because, get this, big databases need a lot of maintaining. Amazon and ebay maintain theirs too, but they have to cough up lots more cash then SOE for that.

koers · 09-12-2009, 05:30 AM

As I read it, this update was for ALL of SOE's games, from Free Realms to the wasteland that is SWG.

The notice read, and I quote "All game worlds will be unavailable for the estimated 12 hour maintenance, as well as the Station Store and all commerce avenues."

It's possible that I misunderstood, but if not then this would certainly explain the 12 hours quite conveniently.

They obviously felt it was worth the downtime, they shut down their fucking store ffs.

Meta · 09-12-2009, 05:59 AM

EQ1 servers were down for the same period of time. It may have been an all SoE servers thing. Anyway I was at work so didn't care. Only bad bit was having to get my corpse rezzed before logging out the night before. That sucked.

curuw · 09-12-2009, 11:07 AM

fuck eq2 its aion open beta !

firamas · 09-12-2009, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aerofae

Gw have bigger dev team (around 150 ppl) and they used to update the game 2-3 times a week never with downtime.. just send you to reboot the game and it's done.

150 people on the dev team for GW?? What the fuck are you smoking? That is financially unsupportable for a game with no subscription or microtransaction income. The "loaded" rate (total cost of compensation to include all benefits and pension) is significantly higher than the actual base salary, and for even entry level technical or artist positions can quickly close in on 6 figures... a senior software engineer costs a company $160-180k/yr when it's all said and done.

Do you have any idea how game development studios are structured? Blizzard pulls in over a billion dollars a year of gross income from WoW subscriptions alone... do you even know how big their team is?

Unless the Guild Wars team is counting some group of 100 playtest volunteers that make minimum wage or less, there's no way in hell they have "150 people on the team". Janitors and accountants aren't "devs", you dumbass.

mafoe · 09-13-2009, 06:22 AM

150 is lolzerskates, I didnt even read that.

In my current project that has been running for 9 years, we never had more than 10 developers (we're currently down to 4.5), and the total project costs have been 11M Euros. Just to give you an idea of the dimensions you'd be thinking of... 150 devs.. haha.

firamas · 09-14-2009, 11:17 AM

I don't even think WoW has 150 devs working on it, heh. If we're talking actual coders and content (art, zones, mechanics) developers, Blizzard probably has somewhere in the realm of 40-60 people devoted full time to the game. Maybe less. Relative to the alpha and beta stages, it really doesn't take that much to work on new content once a game has gone live. I'm sure there's a shitload more in the maintenance, accounting, HR, and marketing departments, but A) they aren't devs and B) most of that is a shared resource within the greater company. I sat in on a session with one of the senior Blizzard management guys at the 2008 GDC, and that's the impression I got from the way he was talking about their internal affairs.

Some people have no fucking idea how a game development studio works. These are the same people that will bitch about patch notes listing a shitload of small tweaks and fixes to the tradeskill system, and make comments like "FUCK CRAFTING PUT THEM TO WORK ON NEW ZONES" as if every dev is an amorphous jack-of-all-trades with the education and skillset to instantly do whatever the company needs.

I also get lulzy around people who advocate F2P games like they're hot shit just because they don't have to pay a monthly fee for them. Guess what your monthly fees pay for, dumbasses.... PEOPLE TO WORK ON CONSTANTLY MAKING YOUR GAME BETTER.

Microtransactions are also one of the most deceptive business models. In most cases subscription models actually take in less money on a per-player basis because the microtransactions are insidiously structured to mask the total amount you're actually spending over the long term for a game. It's effectively legitimized RMT, and companies can make a fortune in profit margin off of some of their players... especially as the gaming demographic continues to mature and is more willing to trade money to avoid timesinks. They will suck that cash out of you.

Pink Poodle · 09-14-2009, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firamas

I don't even think WoW has 150 devs working on it, heh. If we're talking actual coders and content (art, zones, mechanics) developers, Blizzard probably has somewhere in the realm of 40-60 people devoted full time to the game. Maybe less. Relative to the alpha and beta stages, it really doesn't take that much to work on new content once a game has gone live. I'm sure there's a shitload more in the maintenance, accounting, HR, and marketing departments, but A) they aren't devs and B) most of that is a shared resource within the greater company. I sat in on a session with one of the senior Blizzard management guys at the 2008 GDC, and that's the impression I got from the way he was talking about their internal affairs.

Some people have no fucking idea how a game development studio works. These are the same people that will bitch about patch notes listing a shitload of small tweaks and fixes to the tradeskill system, and make comments like "FUCK CRAFTING PUT THEM TO WORK ON NEW ZONES" as if every dev is an amorphous jack-of-all-trades with the education and skillset to instantly do whatever the company needs.

I also get lulzy around people who advocate F2P games like they're hot shit just because they don't have to pay a monthly fee for them. Guess what your monthly fees pay for, dumbasses.... PEOPLE TO WORK ON CONSTANTLY MAKING YOUR GAME BETTER.

Microtransactions are also one of the most deceptive business models. In most cases subscription models actually take in less money on a per-player basis because the microtransactions are insidiously structured to mask the total amount you're actually spending over the long term for a game. It's effectively legitimized RMT, and companies can make a fortune in profit margin off of some of their players... especially as the gaming demographic continues to mature and is more willing to trade money to avoid timesinks. They will suck that cash out of you.

THIS. Holy fuck I see comments on EQ2Flames and other sites all the time: "LOL WHY YOU UPGRADE SOME ART THING, COME ON WORK ON RAIDS!!1" Artists and uh.. raid.. dev people are two different people. Would you want the janitor to make your salad at a restaurant? But oh no he is cleaning HOLY CRAP I WANT MY SALAD NAO

As for F2P games... in high school, I was told by my friends that F2P games are more fun and better "because they're free." Fuck no, they're not really free. They're usually painful to play (RuneScape.. ugh) and have cash shops that are like, free to play, but pay to do well. And the only two F2P games that don't make me want to scream are Free Realms (which, by the way, is 60% free anyway, and has a monthly fee for certain shit,) and Dungeons and Dragons Online (instanced as all hell.) Guild Wars, you still gotta buy, so no comment on that one, I haven't played it either to judge it. All 3 of those games are instanced though.

Cash shops usually piss me off also because... "oh BOY THIS GAME IS FREE BUT IT HAS OPTIONAL CASH SHOP CONTENT GUYS!" Fuck off. I would seriously pay LESS money getting a semi-decent-geared-level-80 in EQ2 than getting a semi-decent-geared-level-whatever in whatever the big cash shop fuckfest of the now is.

F2P games may be more successful than EQ2 in terms of players.. but I'd rather EQ2, because I don't deal with middle schoolers drawing animu lolita desu-chans getting raped by orcs. Yes, I'm serious.

Morara · 09-14-2009, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mafoe

150 is lolzerskates, I didnt even read that.

In my current project that has been running for 9 years, we never had more than 10 developers (we're currently down to 4.5), and the total project costs have been 11M Euros. Just to give you an idea of the dimensions you'd be thinking of... 150 devs.. haha.

To be fair, that's not really an accurate benchmark. 150 developers on one project, while completely ridiculous at a game development firm, wouldn't be getting comparable salaries to what your team does, most likely. I'd bet money on lower tier SOE devs making $35k or so.

Pink Poodle · 09-14-2009, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pink Poodle

p.s.

HOLY GOD IT'S LIKE DEVIANTART JACKASSES DESIGNED THE THUNDERING STEPPES