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Old 05-11-2007, 10:12 AM  
LFG
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Default Freedom of Expression - let's talk

What follows is my editorial opinion only, and IS NOT a change in the direction or format of this site.

So before anyone cries like a little girl about what I say below, first understand that I'm allowed to express my opinions here just as you are, and if you can't handle that you should re-enroll in the third grade and go grab a box of tissues from your mommy.

I received the PM below from a user I respect. I thought I'd post it anonymously because I believe it is well stated and identifies a massive problem on this site:

Quote:
Freedom of Opinion. So I was talking to the folks in my guild last night, and some of them had questions about their classes, so I directed them to check out eq2flames and post their questions here. The response I got was overwhelming. The reason they will never come here is because of the lack of freedom to express oneself.

These boards were created for the purpose of open expression. It has gotten to the point that a select group of posters influence to flow of discussion just by being forum bullies, and griefers. Having the freedom to discuss openly is great, but people are becoming afraid of posting just because they feel like they will get stalked and harrassed everywhere they post.
There is no doubt that a large number of users, possibly up to the same number that post here, will never post here, and are regularly driven from this site, by a smaller number of "type A" posters and outright bullies on this site.

I don't have a solution to this, and I don't think there is one. I walk a very fine line here, and just suggesting people should tone down their shit is often met with accusations that I'm being a "nazi censor", which I consider extraordinarily retarded, because with only a few exceptions since we've been open based on specific Site Rules, I never remove anything on this site unless it involves pr0n pics or a racial or religious slur.

On the other hand, I'm frequently astonished by the depth and breadth of some of the ignorance I witness on this site. Some people actually believe that just because this is a flame site, the preferred method of communication for everything here is extreme hostility, and that users should ALWAYS flame EVERYTHING they write.

Nothing is further from what I ever intended or expected for this site. The purpose of making this a "flame obvious" site was to put people on notice that they better be prepared to back up their shit before acting stupid here or making bullshit claims. The possibility of honest communication is increased in an environment where someone has the freedom to tell someone else they have the IQ and personality of a retarded leg humping chihuahua. This alone prevents a lot of lies and ignorant behavior before it ever starts.

And that's because, when you post here, you put your skin in the game. You risk your posting personality, and there is no safety net. If you post unwisely here, nobody is going to prevent someone else from calling you a dumbass retard.

But things have gone so much further from what I ever considered the "original model" for this site to be. Basically, a few dozen people on this board now respond with amazingly aggressive negativity to just about everyone that posts here, outside of the small group that normally posts in support of them, despite how genuinely sincere and non-offensive the original poster was attempting to be.

Now, I don't even need to name the people I'm talking about. You all know who you are, so do I, so does every user on this board. And I really can't do shit to you, call you out by name even, or start getting down on you for merely being "mean" and "rude" too often. Because if I did that, it would destroy these boards, they would lose the very soul required for the format that's developed here.

What's even more interesting is that even though many of our "type A" users are often accused of chasing others from this site, they are also some of the biggest draws on this site, and attract a following of others who just want to read about how these outrageous and controversial people pwned a noob today.

What I'm suggesting is this - VOLUNTARY self-limitation and cooperation. I'M ASKING YOU TO USE YOUR POWER MORE WISELY, AND MORE RESPONSIBLY. YES, I SAID POWER, YOU HAVE POWER HERE.

These boards REALLY AND TRULY ARE BETTER with diversity - and when I say that, I mean hardcore raiders, newer players able to ask questions and post in a respectful manner without a chip on their shoulder, gay people, heterosexual people, and people of every ethnic and religious background. Truly, all these people can blend together and create some extremely interesting content for us all to enjoy when we don't chase them from this site.

Helping get more people to post here, at minimum, provides you with more entertainment and the ability to further hone your skeelz as a L337 internet flame board badass. If you just consider trying a more subtle approach, rather than bringing out the big guns and destroying your target in every reply you make on this board, you will help this site attract more posters, and by doing so, you will create higher quality targets for your ire. With more posters, you can simply be more selective and only destroy dumbasses who really deserve it, rather than trying to destroy every person you come up against.

All I'm suggesting - and let me remind those who like to accuse me of beign a nazi censor that this is ONLY A SUGGESTION - is to pursue greater quality in your art here, and only rip to shreds the small number of people who really and truly deserve to be vaporized, and not every single person you come across that disagrees with you.

Thank you for reading this.
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Old 05-11-2007, 10:27 AM  
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Default Re: Freedom of Expression - let's talk

You want the truth?

Welcome to the NGD.

No - before you all start flaming and screaming and clawing about how you are NOTHING like the NGD, let me explain.

Message boards and especially popular ones become communities. No matter what the "forum" is, when the jar starts to settle the same layers are going to form.

You're going to get your casual posters, your lurkers, your detractors and trolls and then...

...you are going to get your "regulars".

These are the people who care the most, frequent the most and contribute the most to the community. In doing this, in doing actual conversation, arguing, agreeing and debate you learn the other "regulars" personalities, and like minded individuals tend to flock.

Which is why the whole "NGD popularity" thing used to piss me off. Its not just the NGD - it's not just the forums, it is *EVERYWHERE*.

Yeah, you are going to get people too intimidated to jump into the fray where the F-word flies freely and some people are TRULY fucked in the head, bitter and rabid - but by the same token, the people who ARE brave enough to wade through the shit are just going to strengthen and add TO that community.

It's human nature, and almost everyone here is human.

Almost.
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Old 05-11-2007, 10:32 AM  
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Default Re: Freedom of Expression - let's talk

It is an interesting comparison, and one I must agree rates a comparison.

Some of the most hardcore posters on this site are also the most anti-NGD. Have those people really just become NGD-poster-clones themselves?
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Old 05-11-2007, 10:41 AM  
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Default Re: Freedom of Expression - let's talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by LFG View Post
It is an interesting comparison, and one I must agree rates a comparison.

Some of the most hardcore posters on this site are also the most anti-NGD. Have those people really just become NGD-poster-clones themselves?
At the risk of being flamed by the horrible regulars what the hell is NGD.
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Old 05-11-2007, 10:42 AM  
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Default Re: Freedom of Expression - let's talk

Saying it with that inflection is going to win you hate, denial and ire.

But I'll answer.

No. They haven't. Because there was no "NGD Clique" just like there is no "Flames Clique". You just had regular posters ...posting regularly, bonding, and talking.

To acknowledge one and disavow the other is an excercise in self denial.
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Old 05-11-2007, 10:43 AM  
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Default Re: Freedom of Expression - let's talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Argyuile View Post
At the risk of being flamed by the horrible regulars what the hell is NGD.
NGD refers to the Non-Game-Discussion section of the official EQ2 forums.

A pie ridden and pg-13 version of this place.
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Old 05-11-2007, 10:45 AM  
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Default Re: Freedom of Expression - let's talk

I think the people who are worried they would get flamed are just wrong. The class sections for the most part are pretty tame. I don't recall ever seeing anyone post a nub question and be flamed for it. Usually it gets answered and thats that. The flames usually start when someone posts an answer that is wrong or acts like they're real badass.
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Old 05-11-2007, 10:48 AM  
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Default Re: Freedom of Expression - let's talk

Free expression is what it is. You have to take the good with the bad. Your right, the people you are talking about do have power. The power to drive people away and the power to make their opinion matter more by yelling the loudest.

As far as using that power , here is a nice Abraham Lincoln quote

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power"
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Last edited by Argyuile; 05-11-2007 at 10:50 AM.
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Old 05-11-2007, 10:55 AM  
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Default Re: Freedom of Expression - let's talk

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oopo View Post
I think the people who are worried they would get flamed are just wrong. The class sections for the most part are pretty tame. I don't recall ever seeing anyone post a nub question and be flamed for it. Usually it gets answered and thats that. The flames usually start when someone posts an answer that is wrong or acts like they're real badass.
Thats all I've seen to. at least in the Ranger section, I dont visit the others.
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Old 05-11-2007, 10:56 AM  
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Default Re: Freedom of Expression - let's talk

LFG,

Unfortunately, this is the risk you run into when you host a site like this. Most of the time, people use it as it was intended... to weed out the assholes and post a rant from a concerned player.

But like with every good intention, you always get a lowest common denominator who will turn something really good into something tarnished and less favorable.

I think if someone is being a dick for the sake of, they should get a warning. That's not what this website was intended for. And if there are "bullies" chasing down other players and taking the drama with them, that's borderline harassment and you can stop that at any time.

People don't seem to understand that this is YOUR site. You can run it however you see fit. You don't ask for payment for your services and you provide a quasi-haven for posters who like to add a little more "color" to their rants.

If you did have to swing the hammer on these few griefing individuals, I wouldn't think anything of it. Drama comes in many shades and if you don't want a particular kind on YOUR forums, then don't have it. It is as simple as that.
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