Apollodon

You can do any mob without having all 24 classes

you dont need a rogue to kill anything

does it make it easier or give the raid higher dps?

it all depends

are you getting pwned by a rogue on the parse and cant pass them?
ask for dps help dont complain that someone is better than you

i got pwned by the necro nerf it pls i dont want to try harder
or
Nerf healer debuffs because they are better than mine and they have heals and group buffs
or
Wiz's/Any mage can solo better than anyone else nerf them so that any mob can one shot them

Drodin

Unless 2-5 meters is the range that is safe from AEs then I dont really see your point. Yes we can maintain higher dps farther back, but thats irrelevant because its not doing our max potential. The time other classes spend jousting isnt what breaks their dps to be lower than rangers.

Anyways, Predators are in the game to make the most out of everyone elses utility. We are here to make other peoples buffs be worth using. Sure you can buff a rogue just the same, but a predator will make much better use of it. Illusiory arm does wonders for rangers, mix that with dirge buffs and nobody can compare with the dps gained from those "utilities."

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Jaraxx

Our swashbuckler puts up anywhere from 2.5-2.7k zonewides which is on par if not better then any other swashbuckler in the game. That's with this group set up

Guard
Defiler
Coercer
Defiler
Templar
Dirge

One of my rangers is always 3k zonewides with this group

Dirge
Defiler
Warden
Guardian
Ranger
Ranger

Other is about 2.8k. When I give them stacked groups they go anywere from 3.3.3-6k zonewides.

Do Predators offer any utility as far as debuffs/buffs go? No, they do not. Rangers have jack shit for utility and Assassins have apply poison/hate transfer - so some atleast.

Brigands have debuffs and a swashbuckler has lesser debuffs and a hate transfer.

The question is how much utility are they worth? Take the best brigand in the game and match him off with a top ranger he's going to be beat by at least 800. No matter how stacked you make the groups. As long as they have an equal group set up.

Swashbucklers is the same category just less of a difference.

To the OP - I have no doubt that you have been owned by rogues, but the problem isn't with your class friend. It's you - you must not be on the same level as the rogues. Or you need to learn your class.

But first you must compare yourself. Can a endgame Rogue beat a crappy predator? Sure, they should be able too. But if they both have full masters/same level of gear the predators are going to rape you.

Cheddar

I can understand where the original poster is coming from, though I do not agree.

Rangers are AMAZING dps, providing you have the best gear in the game. Get the Rigid Scale Bow, the tender arrows and the posion from EH and if your ranger isnt decimating the parse then kick them.

However on a non raid level, classes such as Brigands/Swashys can easily keep up with rangers.

Bow progression for rangers is vital, before EoF the Sarnak bow was the best in the game, thats a incredibly rare drop in my experience. Below that, there wasnt really anything near.

Thankfully for Rangers, SoE provided a few more options, the bow from Unrest is pretty decent as a starter bow and a few of the first floor mobs in EH drop a pretty damm good bow as well.

It may not be you are a crappy predator, but more that you simply dont have the items to boost your dps beyond everyone else.

Stinkfinger

I don’t know one class in the game that dominates DPS.

We have like 3 assassins in my guild, and a range of other classes. One fight one assassin will be high, on another fight a necro will be high, on another fight a conj will be high, on another fight the other assassin will be high. We have a bruiser that hits 1800 ish, so sometimes he is high. Ect ect.

It really just depends on the encounter, how fast the raid is moving, what the raid is, ect ect. DPS varies greatly depending on lots of factors, the least of which is “class”

So that being the case, the other things are really what matter.

And I understand in your guild, your Ranger does 2.5 and the swashie does 2.0 therefore rangers rule,,,,,,but you must understand in the next guild over it’s the opposite.

With the utility and the de-buffs rouges bring to the raid (which far outdoes any minor dps lost) and the solo ability and the pvp ability,,,,,,, Preators are 2nd class citizens. That is just the way it boils down to.

The response that “Predators do amazing dps” is ---so what,,,so don’t lots of well played classes,,,, why don’t you add the additional damage disbatch adds to the raid to the brigand and you will not be talking about “predators amazing dps”

Pinski

Rouges are so awesome that I can't even spell their name right!!!

Okay, stop right now. Maybe it's because your raid has shitty groups for your predators and a great group for your rogues? Or maybe it's because your predators just suck. Fact is, they aren't as bad as you make it out to be, you just aren't comparing enough of the variables, and are stuck on being shitty because oh the grass is greener as a Rogue, waaaah.

Just shut up and quit being retarded.

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Jaraxx

Ok - Show me the parses of your rogues parsing more then 2.7k in zonewides - here was our MIS zonewide last night cut out at the top 4. The zonewide was a bit low for dps but in our defense we had 21 people lol.


THIS PARSE IS EXTENDED DPS AND THE FOLLOWING MOBS ARE INCLUDED IN THE ZONEWIDE - COURTESAN GROUPS - BLOOD DRINKERS - CHAPERONS - NAMEDS -- Although we take short cuts for example we skip the entire mayong room clearing nothing in it.

Allies: (30:54) 55342394 | 29850.27
Azleya 6522917 | 3518.29 Ranger
Axumi 5132080 | 2768.11 Swashbuckler
Beeglin 4609035 | 2486.00 Wizard
Morb 4574381 | 2467.30 Warlock

Warlocks group =

Troub - Warlock - Conjuror - Necro - Warden

Wizards Group =

Illusionist - Shadowknight - Wizard - Defiler

Rangers group =

Ranger - Defiler - Dirge - Inquisitor - Brigand - Guardian

Swashbucklers group =

Templar - Dirge - Guardian - Defiler - Swash Coercer


We were low on healers so our second ranger played his alt defiler so we had 6 priests for MMIS otherwise we would of had another ranger parsing 3.1-.3.2k atleast.

Do predators offer anything to the raid then dps? No hardly anything - assassins barely offer anything and rangers offer pathfinding? lol. But If you got these insane rogues let's see the parses. Show me your rogue parsing 3.5k - No just show me one parsing 3k. You don't have one. Unless you aren't doing Extended dps.

Jaraxx

O I just wanted to add on - I'm sure it's possible for rogues to break 3k Zonewides with an insanely stacked group and all the items. I just have never seen it. But I could also just insanely stack Azleya's group and he would put up 4k zonewides. Infact I'm going to do that later.

Snark

seems wierd that about half your dps is 4 classes, not that their dps is high it just seems raid dps seems disproportional

but yeah 3k for a rogue is a simple as dirge + coercer for most zones

rangers do the dps the do because of %hit bonuses, and the fact that bow dps seems to scale wrong. i think its right that they do the most dps, but it just seems designed poorly

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http://heyandy.ytmnd.com/
http://acceptable.tv/videos/769-Cirque-Du-Soleil
http://www.break.com/index/sheep-wea...ares-herd.html

Jaraxx

Tell ya what Snark - this next week we won't be doing MIS at 11:30EST so people won't bitch and will actually be on. I'll have a complete zonewide for ya. I just didn't want to post a complete zonewide when some of my guys didn't perform as well as they should have.

And as far as Strike DPS goes it's ALWAYS

Azleya-Ranger
Weva-Ranger
Axumi-Swash

Then back and fourth between our warlock/wizard then necro then conjuror. I want to see more Disso parses tho to be honest as for us our scouts rape the shit out of our mages. But it looks like you have mages leading zonewides over there so I thought that was a bit interesting. Personally I really just want to see more Ishbu/Calaglin (especially) Calaglin.