Death to RMT - Page 10

Odinn · 05-23-2007, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminator

While we're on the topic, what's the deal with giving a free fucking Master II spell every 10 levels?

I am sure most of us remember the original "Training" spells out that were pretty good for some classes. It was a nice boost to your character, but since they didn't want to fix the imbalances between the training spells...M2 choice it is...

But, yeah now everyone pretty much can M2 their best spells. Where the fuck are the M3 spells that we were supposed to get. I know they fucked up the drop rates for the rare that was supposed to make them right before DoF came out. Was it rubicite, or was that just for jewelry?

See, that was a good idea. Rare drops off raid mobs to make M3 spells. It would actually make the Sage class useful too....

Talonis · 05-23-2007, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammarus

Which is why your argument has had very little to do with solving the RMT problem, and everything to do with your belief that no one else deserves to be better. And they should play by your rules.

Which is why you are getting an 'F' in reading comprehension. You have some kind of casual guild hardon, yet claim to be a raider. You probably are both, and bought plat to get there. It's ok, I don't expect everyone to get the concept. The discussion is the important part. Your views of me are unimportant to the discussion and your logic in determining my secret elitist agenda belongs in The Enquirer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammarus

You insinuate I bought my gear. Not that I didn't bait you into believing that at least a little, but you took it the next step and tried to make it truth and a defense for your viewpoint. Nothing could be further from the real truth of course. You just think your better than everyone else, aka. Eliteist.

I must be missing the part where I said I'm better than someone. Please quote it for me so I can put it in context or apologize.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammarus

I however am on par, but just don't happen to agree with your view on game economics, nor will i fuck the casual guy and claim im doing them a favor, then blame it all on the plat farmer/seller.

You are an RMT supporter on non-SE servers. You support cheating and breaking of rules. You think current progression is good. You don't care about plat tells, mails, online ads, and zone disruption. Got it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammarus

Your proposals would have wide sweeping implications for the game economy and game play for many players who play by the rules and obey the EULA. Many of your so called solutions, imo, would be detrimental to the games health. And most which if your as uber as you think you are, don't even affect you.

WHAT ARE THESE APOCALYPTIC THINGS? PLEASE EXPLAIN THE ERROR IN MY THOUGHT PROCESS! WHAT ARE THE HUUUUUUUGE PROBLEMS I CREATE?

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammarus

Why would a hardcore raider give a flying fuck about collection quest items?

Because collection quests themselves are poorly implemented and inherently overpowered in what they can do for a toon. Because of the poor design, people can charge giant prices for these items. They are not really optional for progression, they are practically required. The importance placed on them makes completing them essential. Completing expensive essential collection quests that are available for purchase on the market create a NEED to purchase plat. Make them NO-TRADE. Problem solved. Go QUEST for your Collection Quest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammarus

Who are you really proposing this for? The player base or yourself?

Jeeeze you are a dumb motherfucker.

hammarus · 05-23-2007, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talonis

Dude, gimme a break. Ishbu says a lot of stupid shit. Who doesn't? He also says a lot of here-is-the-truth-in-your-motherfucking-face stuff too. On the point of reducing drops, he is spot on and 'gets it'. You do not. It doesn't require an Econ degree to see the fucked up mechanics create conditions and opportunity for the support and desirability of utilizing RMT.

How the fuck do my ideas restrict ANYBODY'S gameplay? My ideas ENCOURAGE people to get out and PLAY the game instead of purchasing progression on servers where that is against the ruleset. Are you making this shit up for soundbites.com?

What is the OTHER problem we create? Is it worse? Please explain.

It isn't a matter of deserving it. It is entirely about earning it. There are some things in the progression of game playing that you just shouldn't be able to buy. Items that are soooo desirable, people will resort to cheating to get them.

Labs is possibly the worst example one could use. Why don't you use EH or for that matter SOTL. Because you will make the same arguement after you have mastered EH as you make after mastering Labs as you made after mastering SOTL. You want to talk about itemization fine, he has been spot on for itemization. But drop rates is one area I can't completely agree with him on. I could however be persuaded by good discussion. However, drop rates have nothing to do with what you are proposing, of which btw, most is no-trade shit.

Because, I don't sit here and tell others how the fuck they should play. Because I don't come up with dumb fuck ideas that change an existing economy. That in turn change how others decide they want to play, because i believe it will fix RMT. All the while maintaining a belief that its more important I feel better because now I know they "earned it". Thats why.

So you get to set the rules on how people earn/deserve it. Is that it? Because they attended a fuckin grindfest raid and managed to either eek out a decent random roll or enough dkp.

Were not talking gear here, were talking about masters and fucking collection items. And it fucks the economy, oh not in the way you think. But by reducing the number of things people want to buy.

Why don't you just carry your idea to its conclusion, make everything no-trade. No reason for plat at all. Everything is earned, mounts, houses, collection items, treasured items, meaty bones, crafted... Want that T8 sword, better get your weaponsmithing up. Whoops your a tailor sorry your fucked, guess you better roll an alt, wouldnt want you to not earn it. Oh wait! Its no-trade. Guess you will just have to be ENCOURAGED to earn it, have to get you out there and kill mobs to find one.

Aandien · 05-23-2007, 02:37 PM

The original assertions are nearly exactly what they did in EQ1. Lets take a look at that game for a minute...

1) I had somewhere in the neighborhood of 4million pp when I quit. I had that much money...because everything was notrade, and there wasn't a single thing I needed to buy with my PP. I was a raider.

2) Raiders have alts. Raiders like to equip their alts with purchasable stuff. In EQ this equated to purchasing the farmable set molds back in POP. Here it would equate to buying legendary gear or mastercrafted.

3) Because everything raiders want are now no-trade (under your assertion), raiders now accumulate vasts amounts of wealth they have no need for (because every penny earned, is a penny saved...regardless of how little it is per accumulation).

4) As a result, raiders are now wanting to purchase those farmable molds. Sellers will realize this, and charge tremendous amounts of pp for those things. Take a look at EQ, you'll see this in action to this day.

5) These tremendous prices are completely impossible for true newbies to achieve by playing the game.

6) Enter RMT to save the day.

What your suggestions will create -- is an even BIGGER dependence on buying/selling platinum. Just take a look at the current EQ economy (which is what your suggesting we move to) to see how long-term, your suggestions are not very good at achieving your objectives.

BTW, Hi there Tal

Talonis · 05-23-2007, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manratten

I guess I don't understand alot of the points being made here. From recent posts, it seems the OP actually doesn't care one iota at all about RMT, but actually just wants masters to be only for raiders. (I could be reading this wrong, but that is the general drift I am getting)

You are reading this wrong. I am pointing out one problem and showing how it exacerbates another. Some of these people do not agree or recognize there is a plat seller problem or a progression problem. It doesn't directly affect them, so it is not important and not worth discussing, yet they will take the time to say so....like you.

I absolutely want to see RMT die. It is a bonus that positive changes could be made to progression at the same time. I have to fight of the elitist labels because some folks are too dumb or ignorant to see that progression has been fucked for a very long time and still needs to be fixed, 3 years later.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manratten

If playerx doesn't raid, only solo's, sometimes groups of 2-3, whatever, and has accumulated a ton of plat, I see no no problem whatsoever with them buying masters, tradeable fabled, or meaty bones. It's their money, who cares what they do with it. Now, same person, who bought 2.3 billion in plat, decides he/she wants to buy it...so what? I don't understand how this is affecting anyone.

So you are one of these folks that are unaffected by any of the plat spam and see no problem with current game progression? Got it. This discussion is not for you then, I guess. /shrug

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manratten

Now the premise I am seeing is that it is 'easymode' or some such. Heck, two things in this game make it alot easier than anything have nothing to do plat. Looking up quests and strats online, and having using ACT (or similar, maybe just perusing the log) to figure out exactly what happened/needs to be done.

Correct. Neither have anything to do with plat. So lets stay on topic and discuss plat. Open new threads on ACT and EQ2i/Zam.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manratten

Generally, I guess I am less concerned with how other people play, than I am my own enjoyment. If someone doesn't want to buy anything, do all their own quests, whatever...go for it. If someone else does every quest with a spoiler website running next to them, live it up. They aren't playing my character, I am.

So you just oppose change because you like things the way they are and disagree that progression is fucked up and plat spam is at an all-time high and several game mechanics support and encourage the use of illegal RMT. Got it again. So what are you saying then? Pick a side, dude. It's a discussion.

hammarus · 05-23-2007, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talonis

Which is why you are getting an 'F' in reading comprehension. You have some kind of casual guild hardon, yet claim to be a raider. You probably are both, and bought plat to get there. It's ok, I don't expect everyone to get the concept. The discussion is the important part. Your views of me are unimportant to the discussion and your logic in determining my secret elitist agenda belongs in The Enquirer.

I must be missing the part where I said I'm better than someone. Please quote it for me so I can put it in context or apologize.

You are an RMT supporter on non-SE servers. You support cheating and breaking of rules. You think current progression is good. You don't care about plat tells, mails, online ads, and zone disruption. Got it.

WHAT ARE THESE APOCALYPTIC THINGS? PLEASE EXPLAIN THE ERROR IN MY THOUGHT PROCESS! WHAT ARE THE HUUUUUUUGE PROBLEMS I CREATE?

Because collection quests themselves are poorly implemented and inherently overpowered in what they can do for a toon. Because of the poor design, people can charge giant prices for these items. They are not really optional for progression, they are practically required. The importance placed on them makes completing them essential. Completing expensive essential collection quests that are available for purchase on the market create a NEED to purchase plat. Make them NO-TRADE. Problem solved. Go QUEST for your Collection Quest.

Jeeeze you are a dumb motherfucker.

I fucking hate RMT, but I fucking hate shitty solutions to it even more. So who is the dumber motherfucker? Obviously, since you proposed this stupid shit, an explanation would be pointless.

Perhaps my first response to your OP should have been simply; Dumbfuck idea. And left it at that.

hammarus · 05-23-2007, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aandien

The original assertions are nearly exactly what they did in EQ1. Lets take a look at that game for a minute...

1) I had somewhere in the neighborhood of 4million pp when I quit. I had that much money...because everything was notrade, and there wasn't a single thing I needed to buy with my PP. I was a raider.

2) Raiders have alts. Raiders like to equip their alts with purchasable stuff. In EQ this equated to purchasing the farmable set molds back in POP. Here it would equate to buying legendary gear or mastercrafted.

3) Because everything raiders want are now no-trade (under your assertion), raiders now accumulate vasts amounts of wealth they have no need for (because every penny earned, is a penny saved...regardless of how little it is per accumulation).

4) As a result, raiders are now wanting to purchase those farmable molds. Sellers will realize this, and charge tremendous amounts of pp for those things. Take a look at EQ, you'll see this in action to this day.

5) These tremendous prices are completely impossible for true newbies to achieve by playing the game.

6) Enter RMT to save the day.

What your suggestions will create -- is an even BIGGER dependence on buying/selling platinum. Just take a look at the current EQ economy (which is what your suggesting we move to) to see how long-term, your suggestions are not very good at achieving your objectives.

BTW, Hi there Tal

QFT

Holy fuck someone who says it better than I ever could. Hence the fucked economy.

Illuminator · 05-23-2007, 02:53 PM

Nobody is at odds with collection quests because generally they don't drop progression-busting combat items (T4 Necklace of Flowing Orbs and T7 proc earrings being exceptions). I don't begrudge people who find ways to accelerate xp grinding because I can't stand the process personally.

I don't advocate a currency-less game either. You need your George Washingtons and then you need your John Hancocks. I simply say that easy access to masters in violation of item progression is letting plat sellers accumulate plat faster than they deserve.

YES. FASTER THAN THEY DESERVE.

They do not put the skill investment into the game to be earning what they do. They use the fucked up Gown of Glory and Enspelled Vultak Eye to give themselves 750 points of regenerative wards on top of what AA's give them. These are absurdly easy to acquire. When they multibox, they bot. Yes, they automate their backup characters, especially their warlocks. I've proven this with screenshots many times.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hammarus

So you get to set the rules on how people earn/deserve it. Is that it? Because they attended a fuckin grindfest raid and managed to either eek out a decent random roll or enough dkp.

Your sarcasm isn't enough to diminish the responsibilities of an accomplished raider. Raids that do random rolls aren't the kinds of raids we talk about in any great detail here.

Rinion · 05-23-2007, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windraa

I think it would be interesting if SoE created a turn-in system for aquireing masters. Like how the system for the rewards for Malkonis' head or Mayongs amulet works...
Turn in <Insert raidmobs name here>'s left nut for your choice of lvl 71-80 master.
Would take time for an entre raidforce to be fully mastered, but atleast they would know that they earned it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talonis

A good idea. Thanks for putting it out there.

Thats basically what I was talking about in the PM to you. But I think your right they should be No-Trade and off Raid mobs only. it is really retarded that people think they have to have anything better then adept 3 for heroic content.

I still think crafting should be more involved, rather then a turn in let them be consigned to crafters and bam the economy is still going good because you have to pay some crafter to have it made. so money is circulating still from raiders to non-raiders.

Rinion · 05-23-2007, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odinn

See, that was a good idea. Rare drops off raid mobs to make M3 spells. It would actually make the Sage class useful too....

Exactly, leave Master 1 spells as they are. Implement that.

Master 1 prices would drop guaranteed because all the raider wouldn't be offering obscene amounts to buy them.

With consignment implementing that would be easy and as you said give crafters Far more useful roles. pumping money into that part of the in game economy, seems like a very healthy thing to do.