Death to RMT - Page 24

Illuminator · 05-25-2007, 05:54 PM

It's already been thought through from start to finish, and we've had since November 2005 to do the thinking. Actually I started thinking ever since this one dev post I can't seem to find, maybe it was in October, where he first introduced the idea of master spells dropping off of anything and everything. I thought it was the stupidest thing I ever read in the history of the game, and lo and behold it became the biggest disruption in the history of the game. But everybody was too busy feeding their fucking faces with masters to really worry about the longer-term implications.

The issue of bidding on spells is moot because people are already bidding on multi-class gear.

Widem · 05-25-2007, 06:11 PM

Ok home now, but yeah illum i was just trying to figure out the root of where your point of view is coming from. I understand now you are constantly in direct copetition with plat farmers for your bottom line and thats why you are so adamant about this.

Khalan · 05-25-2007, 06:14 PM

I agree with a lot of points, is anyone including the OP willing to write an itemization design doc? something that would encompass all the things talked about, their implications and how they tie in to other aspects of the game and how it would all positively or negativelt affect RMT? because until you get serious about it, all I read is fragmented arguments.

Gori · 05-25-2007, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminator

It's already been thought through from start to finish, and we've had since November 2005 to do the thinking. Actually I started thinking ever since this one dev post I can't seem to find, maybe it was in October, where he first introduced the idea of master spells dropping off of anything and everything. I thought it was the stupidest thing I ever read in the history of the game, and lo and behold it became the biggest disruption in the history of the game. But everybody was too busy feeding their fucking faces with masters to really worry about the longer-term implications.

The issue of bidding on spells is moot because people are already bidding on multi-class gear.

I agree that spell progression is fucked. I just don't think the proposed idea is the best way to remedy it. I think the best way would be to totally eliminate master chests from anything below named group mobs and make them drop substantially less often from even the named. I think the occasional master spell from a named, less than epic, mob wouldn't totally fubar progression and would still leave non-raiders the occasional <woot> moment.

There is just to much "work" involved in setting up the proposed system, and I think it would even tend to "break" progression to a small degree by allowing people to master ALL the important spells right off the bat in the tier, and achieve "all master" status more quickly and more easily.

Plus, I know you probably dont care much about what non-raiders think, but making all masters spells no trade is going to completely piss off a certain percentage of them, even my proposed solution would I am sure. I think, in absolute terms, the [{number or non-raiders pissed of because of no-trade masters} X {the percentage of them likely to quit because of it}] > [{number of raiders pissed off because of broken spell progression} x{the percetage them likely to quit because of it}].

Regardless of whether it would have been the right way to structure the game at the start, or leave it be (before they upped the drop rate), we have to deal with the realities of what these changes would do to the game now.

As I said before about plat farmers and sellers. I do think they have both a tangible and intangible negative impact on the game. Right now, however, the tangible impact to the average Joe/Jane Blow player is not so much that I think they would say "we need to make changes to the 'trade' system" to counter it.

So in summary. Way too complicated of an idea to implement, one that goes beyond what players, as a whole, would be willing to take, and one that would make it easier, therefore more trivial, to obtain spells at the "top end" of the game. How is this a good idea on balance?

Edited to add comment: Regarding multi class gear. Yea it happens, but think about bidding againt everyone else for what amounts to almost another complete set of slots(numerically), vs bidding against only the same class on spells. There will be additional bid inflation, and/or drama. It will occur as a matter of course because of the additional people and/or additional complexity of the process.

Panthera · 05-25-2007, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminator

I thought it was the stupidest thing I ever read in the history of the game, and lo and behold it became the biggest disruption in the history of the game.

How do you rationalize this statement? You aren't happy but others are and they continue to pay their subscriptions.

People play this game for a lot of different reasons.

Wolfe · 05-25-2007, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talonis

It also boils down to the fucktards like you, who buy their loot to progress. You raid for the challenge? I challenge you to go raid EH and get a dagger. Oh wait, no need. You bought it. Have you worked on the tall tale you'll tell the n00b who asks where you got it? Weakass.

You 'white names' reading this? Here is your target. Please dispatch it and restore progression in the process.

Actually no i have not worked on a story to tell them if they ask i tell them just how i got it i bought it.
Guess you just cant comprehend enjoying a zone for the zone itself.
Seeing how there are no trade and trade loot items iam pretty sure the currant loot system is working as intended and as a matter of fact i think the majority of the player base thinks its working just fine.
I raid to enjoy the content be it loot or just the zone itself NOT to stand around a dock and try to look uber!
I really do not care if some one has the same items as me reguardless of how hard or how easy they got it.
Where as those like you want to have it and keep it from others due to it some how demeaning your own self worth.
example
Joe saved years to buy his corvette that vette means a lot to him. Bill his boss sees it and goes out the next day and buys one just like it.
Iam pretty sure Joe still loves his vette reguardless of how easy some one else got one also. Unless of course if Joe simple got the vette as a status item then maybe he would be upset.
maybe thats your issue HOW DARE some one else have the same gear as you with out the work ohh poor you what will you ever do!
I know youll just run to the boards and QQ till the cows come home about how belittled you are!
Guess what asshat for you and yours that are pissed about others getting fabled and masters theres tons more so very happy they got theres and others still happy and looking forward to the day they can get theres! be it from raiding or farming there ass off for the plat to buy it!
For me EH is still a ways off in the future (we are getting there thu) but the plat was already avalable (i farm the 11 or 12 hours or so a day that iam not raiding so for me plat is a none issue. Yep iam one of those that if a guildy does not need my master drops will rape asshats like you for the plat).

Illuminator · 05-26-2007, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gori

So in summary. Way too complicated of an idea to implement, one that goes beyond what players, as a whole, would be willing to take, and one that would make it easier, therefore more trivial, to obtain spells at the "top end" of the game. How is this a good idea on balance?

Okay, first of all, whose idea are you talking about? There is nothing at all complicated about what I proposed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Panthera

How do you rationalize this statement? You aren't happy but others are and they continue to pay their subscriptions.

People play this game for a lot of different reasons.

Good for them. They aren't running into this issue and therefore (a) have nothing to add to this thread, and (b) have nothing to lose by the problems in this thread being fixed. Let them enjoy their peaceful ignorance, don't wake them up with bullshit and whispering in their ears that they have a birthright to full masters. That's where problems start.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfe

I really do not care if some one has the same items as me reguardless of how hard or how easy they got it.

The day you go through hell to get something that someone else gets with zero investment, is the day your tune changes in a heartbeat. You might not know it right away because you're farting around, but when it happens you'll know it, and I'll know it.

Gori · 05-26-2007, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminator

Okay, first of all, whose idea are you talking about? There is nothing at all complicated about what I proposed.

I was referring back to the original idea, but your idea would still require a bit of work.

For one you are including a class of spells that has heretofore never existed in the game, and while you are including them at the logically easiest point, they would still have to created and balanced in the database. That would be for every upgradable spell in the game.

Secondly since these are crafted spells, and would presumably replace the adept 3s, every single recipe for adept 3s would have to be changed to the new spell.

Finally, you would have to duplicate every single adept 3 in the game as a dropable object and add them to the loot tables of whatever mobs they need to drop from.

Yes, your plan is straightforward, but easy? Sounds like some work to me. I think the easiest thing to do would be to tweak the global drop rate variable on master chests. Make it zero for regular mobs and something like 1% for nameds.

Actually, the easiest thing to do would be to do nothing and let the majority of the players carry on their merry way. That is what I suspect SOE will do instead of what needs to be done, which, while we cannot agree on the particulars, at least agree is something.

Panthera · 05-26-2007, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminator

The day you go through hell to get something that someone else gets with zero investment, is the day your tune changes in a heartbeat. You might not know it right away because you're farting around, but when it happens you'll know it, and I'll know it.

Go through hell? Investment? Either you are intentionally tossing about hyperbole or you really have lost sight of the fact that this is just a game.

You have this major hard on against the RNG. How many masters have you won in your "career?" You said yourself you farm for plat and have used /target, among other tricks, to get your master chests to drop. So what prices do you charge? You wouldn't be one of those that charge outrageous prices that cause people to need to buy plat...would you?

Please tell me you aren't one of those that charge like a plat for by-products like Scintillating dust.

Illuminator · 05-26-2007, 01:49 AM

"Just a game"? Seriously, do you ever ask yourself what you're doing on this site? That's like a fucking insult to everyone who ever gave two shits about the game. You don't go up to Bill Belichick and say, "It's just football".

And are you such a retard that you don't understand the basics of a market economy? Am I going to have to explain it to you, too? The price is what the price is, and there are no permanent monopolies stopping you from acquiring product on your own. You want something, get up off your ass and get it, don't be breathing down the backs of in-character businessmen doing all the work for you.

Man I hate getting nasty but Jesus Christ seriously.

I've made 1500-2000 plat in the course of the game, almost all of it going to masters, none of it from pulling mobs through walls. That's a parlor trick for people with more patience than me farming the Nizara Sash. I don't dick around with that zone anymore, Sash be damned. Before the nerf I used the perfectly functioning /target based on a spherical radius or close to it, then a perfectly legit ground path for the charm pet. If you don't find the ground path, you aren't trying.

We can go back to when I made 20pp one weekend farming trash for heinous long hours in Living Tombs just so I could buy a Robe of the Invoker from some guy on the broker. On top of that, I took the extra step of fending off plat pharmers so any summoner who showed up wanting the staff could get it. This was well before the Master I Entitlement Program got kicked into high gear.

If you want something in this game, you grab that shit by the nuts and pull till it rips free. Pussying out and NAGGING for it up front is disgusting to any tenet of player achievement and is the god damned easiest path to megaboredom.