Death to RMT

Talonis · 05-22-2007, 01:58 PM

The subject has been beaten to death.

I think we can all agree that everyone would like to see RMT die. Those that do not, and support RMT, will not risk coming forward to defend it. Besides, they have no viable argument in favor of RMT. I wanted to [re]open this discussion because a recent related post by Illuminator asked a different question and he requested that topic stay in the direction of the original question asked. Out of respect, I am opening this discussion. A new tier is almost upon us. There is time to make changes and get it right.

Illuminator has done more than his fair share of battling the zergling army of farmers, as have many others. I commend these efforts completely. It has been suggested more than once that SOE inherently supports RMT due to several factors ranging from the fact the farmers and advertisers are still around in alarming numbers, hiring of executives previously employed in RMT, and the mere presence of Exchange Servers. Tin foil hats and conspiracy theories aside, I personally believe they do not support 3rd party RMT directly, but are hindered by the nature of the game itself to completely eradicate it.

It has been argued that an MMO economy parallels the gambling industry and should be regulated as such, in its own special way. It isn't that cut and dry though, because of the slippery slope of 'internet law'. The issue is conflicted by the online nature of the game, the interdependencies of real and virtual world factors, and interpretations of virtual world value.

-I maintain that the best way to curtail RMT in EQ2 is to reduce the need and desirability of utilizing it.

People that purchase plat do so because there is something available for them to purchase and they lack the (insert reason) to get the plat on their own. You can't regulate laziness, but you can regulate the items they are too lazy to get.

What are these items? There are more, but lets look at the biggest three, in no particular order:

-Master Spells

-Fabled / Legendary Gear

-Collection Items

A) Master spells are the biggest items. The concept of Min / maxing dictates that your toon needs to be 100% mastered out. Master spells are of a quality and level of effectiveness that is highly desired in order to defeat the hardest of content. They are mostly not required to beat any encounter in the game, but the content has shifted to the point of using master-quality spells as the baseline of content development. This is an error in implementation of master spell availability. Who doesn't want their toon to be the best? Duh, I know. Based on this brief and incomplete reasoning, Master Spells are highly desirable. The errors in implementation are availability and trade-ability. My proposal is twofold:

1) Make master spells a crafted item that requires a NO-TRADE component that drops only from appropriate tier Epic encounters. The crafting mechanic now allows consignment. This is an easy idea to implement.

2) Design content without using fully-mastered toons as the baseline opponent.

B) Along with having the best spells / combat arts, folks want the best gear. NO-TRADE gear was not especially popular in its infancy, but the positive effects on the economy are evident in present-day. It is still puzzling (to me anyway) why tradeable Fabled / Legendary gear exists. The closest reason I can come up with is to provide a means for players to sell an item for a high price to get those other high price items.......like Master Spells. See how this stuff is linked and snowballs? Make the best gear NO-TRADE. If you want the best gear, gather up your friends and quest your ass into a heroic / raid zone and kill shit to get it. Get rid of ATTUNEABLE Fabled / Legendary gear. Play the game to get gear and spells, instead of buying it.

C) Collection Quests are the devil. I hate them. If they are truly a quest, then get off your ass and QUEST for them. That's right, NO-TRADE shinies. Simple as that.

So now everybody screams: "OMG! You are nerfing every way I make money!" Bullshit. There are plenty of ways to make money in this game. These changes would reduce the need for large sums of money by eliminating the [lazy] means to get them. The RMT suffers because people no longer need to purchase plat due to the fact there is little that requires large sums of plat to purchase. Again, this list is nowhere complete, but a good start and a breeze to implement.

Ok, discuss and flame on.

Manratten · 05-22-2007, 02:43 PM

Well, your first assertation is that noone would come forward to defend RMT. Heck, I will. I have never bought or sold a thing in the game for real money, and likely never will. However, if someone offered me a million dollars for my account, (or whatever fictional number I wish), you better believe I would change.

Now, generally, the odds of getting 1 million for godknowswhat is likely pretty slim. However, while my price my be a million, a 17 yr old kid making $6.00 an hour might have a dif price.

I guess I just don't care if people buy or sell plat. The usual two arguments I hear against it are...

1) They didn't earn it. Well, sure, they earned it, they bought it. I drive a BMW Z4, but I didn't go to Germany and build it myself, I bought it. I get that RL and the game aren't the same, but that does lead me to a later point.

2) People with 'artificially' better characters won't be as good, and I might have to group with them and they might mess me up. Yeah...so. This game isn't exactly rocket science. A person who never played eq2 whatsoever could be a complete expert in their class in days. I mean, think about all the things that are 'clever', or 'hard' to do, with any class. This game isn't that hard....it just takes time, which I presume the RMT is attempting to avoid.

Now, again, I get RL and the game are different. That is why I have such a hard time figuring out why people get so upset, since what they are upset about.....is a game.

Snark · 05-22-2007, 02:48 PM

i agree with your first and third points. the whole master spell system was designed very poorly. and so were collection quests

Rinion · 05-22-2007, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talonis

The subject has been beaten to death.

I think we can all agree that everyone would like to see RMT die. Those that do not, and support RMT, will not risk coming forward to defend it. Besides, they have no viable argument in favor of RMT. .

I do not like RMT in places and games where RMT wasn't made a part of the game.

but a viable defence for LEGAL RMT, such as Station Exchange, is that players can make money back doing something they enjoy as their hobby.

legal RMT that involves player transactions is pretty cool when you think about it without thinking about its illegal counterpart.

its basically, "hmm cool so your saying I Get to play this game AND make money off it? what a cool hobby!"

Its the illegal RMT that people use to gain unfair advantages that piss me off. And its professionals making money off players that wont be pumped back into the game to improve it.

To me legal RMT seems more like a symbiotic relationship, because people that sell are likely to buy and of course sony takes their Cut and it goes to their employees and helps the games budget.

where Illegal RMT is simply a parasite funneling funds off others work and pocketing them.

Huh.. wonder how many enemies I made presenting that View?

Edit: oh btw Talonis I agree with points A and C, imo fables/leg gear isnt all that big of a problem. Knocking out A and C would be a big enough hit on the EQ2 illegal RMT economy

Talonis · 05-22-2007, 03:04 PM

Manratten,

I think opinions similar to yours are more prevalent than most may think. Complacency from the playerbase that feel unaffected is probably a bigger obstacle than convincing SOE to make changes. I'm not trying to say you are wrong at all; it is just telling how your view on things contributes to lack of action being taken by SOE.

It is entirely possible that my opinion (that RMT is wrong, affects everyone's gameplay directly and indirectly, and needs to go away)....

.....is the minority.

Grrrrrrrrl · 05-22-2007, 03:04 PM

People selling gold and items for real money is against the EULA. That is a basic fact. The concept is similar to getting your BMW on the black market, who had it sold to them by some back alley thieves. Not like going to the dealership and getting your BMW legitimately. This has always been the reason I know of so many to h8 the plat farming industry myself included.

Why doesnt SOE make a few simple changes to help the mainstrean player base avoid unwanted harrassment by setting up player useable blocking mechanics for mail and tells? IMO they get their monthly fees, they win. We are suckers

Why soe would hire the guy from a plat farming company?? I dont know but its shady I'd honestly like to get a hold of this guy and ask him his standings on his past employer and others like them

Ishbu · 05-22-2007, 03:06 PM

The new high end content such as EoF had to be designed around players with full fabled gear. KoS had been out for months upon months and every level 70 tom, dick, and harry, had at least relic gear if they wanted it, regardless of if they actually are a raider, non raider, etc.

In short, the fabled gear was made so abundant they had no choice but to make th content based around that or make it so the content was a complete and absolute joke to most of the people who would be making use of it (meaning level 70's will make use of level 70 content).

What really should happen in this regards is far LESS loot needs to drop. Look at zones like labs or FTH, they basically throw gear at you. FTH takes some advanced guilds less than 20minutes total zone in time to clear and they get 6 pieces of guarenteed fabled loot. Thats over one piece per 4 minutes! The content in eq2 simply does not require as much gearing up as eq1 did and it is progressed through much quicker, there needs to be far less fabled gear dropping all together.

Rinion · 05-22-2007, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grrrrrrrrl

People selling gold and items for real money is against the EULA. That is a basic fact. The concept is similar to getting your BMW on the black market, who had it sold to them by some back alley thieves. Not like going to the dealership and getting your BMW legitimately.

QFE, thats a wonderful comparison, bang on.
Which is why I did say I hate the ILLEGAL RMT. Not because it is RMT, but because it is Illegal.

Widem · 05-22-2007, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grrrrrrrrl

People selling gold and items for real money is against the EULA. That is a basic fact. The concept is similar to getting your BMW on the black market, who had it sold to them by some back alley thieves. Not like going to the dealership and getting your BMW legitimately. This has always been the reason I know of so many to h8 the plat farming industry myself included.

I really dont see it as that though, i simply see it as buying it with a different form of currency. Everything in the world boils down to one thing...time. that is what everyone is compensated for. A lawyer who getts paid 6 figures is getting paid for all the time he put into schooling and how much time he is saving a client from having to do all that schooling himself. The same rule applies here.

There are many people who cant devote the time needed to just sitting around grabbing plat but like to play aspects of the game that would take someone a considerable amount of time to accomplish. They are effectively just trading one time for another which is ok in my book.

Talonis · 05-22-2007, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Widem

I really dont see it as that though, i simply see it as buying it with a different form of currency. Everything in the world boils down to one thing...time. that is what everyone is compensated for. A lawyer who getts paid 6 figures is getting paid for all the time he put into schooling and how much time he is saving a client from having to do all that schooling himself. The same rule applies here.

There are many people who cant devote the time needed to just sitting around grabbing plat but like to play aspects of the game that would take someone a considerable amount of time to accomplish. They are effectively just trading one time for another which is ok in my book.

And that exists in a legitimate form on the SE server. On any other server, it is against the rule set, therefore cheating.

I guess my original post should specify that my target for the purposes of this discussion is aimed at against the rules/illegal RMT.