Test update notes - Page 13

gungo · 06-27-2007, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Widem

thats why i think lore being incorporated into an open ended game like this is dumb. it puts constraints on something that is constantly evolving.

i think you forget one thing. That mayong was always intended to be the end boss. Hence why the art department made mayong with soulfire already in hand.

the quest guy knew
the lore guy knew
the item guys knew
and the raid designers knew

Now if the lore guy knew this big bad end boss guy is suppose to be the final guy
and the quest guy knew it was some big bad epic quest
and the item guys knew it was some big bad epic
why did the raid guy make a chump and then nerf him again.

Judist · 06-27-2007, 03:53 PM

I woulda expected them to nerf him after SoD had been finished for awhile. Just like Tarinax the better/hardcore guilds had their epic rewards long before the casuals (tho this was also due to locking down Harla Dar before she was instanced). Eventually as time passed and EoF introduced miracles/blessings and 50 more AA many more could kill Tarry and get their rewards.

Nerfing Mayong and allowing people to buy tons of WB's on release of the final SoD quest takes the fun out of getting the fabled rewards first, as Im guessing many more will be able to take him down.

Widem · 06-27-2007, 03:53 PM

this is the whole shitstorm of it all then.

they designed the progression backwards which has been admitted that instanced mayong was intended to be after wuoshi. knowing this they then designed the epic quest line catered to the backwards progression and then even after the fact made a reward that was not on par with the difficutly. any of this could have been fixed in any number of ways at any given time.

they could have fixed it through the questline. they could have fixed it through the lore. they could have fixed it through the raid zone. they could have fixed it through the reward.

its all very simple.

questline = make only thex castle mayong give update.
lore = further incorporate the story on how some renegade in his ranks stole the soulfire and retreated to thex IE the new instance or even that he had an encounter with wuoshi where it was lost in the battle and that can go anywhere. its a stroy you can fix anything.
raid content = (as above with locations)
reward = make a simple reward and make it better as you further through the quest or just nerf it all together b/c the rewards arent really matching what rops off the mob in its current state much less what it should drop off its nerfed state.

Ballads · 06-27-2007, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rizam

The reason for 3 Mayongs is that Mayong is the boss of the new raid zone Tunarian Throne Room, if this is a crazy answer or repeating what someone already said plz disregard...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Widem

thats why i think lore being incorporated into an open ended game like this is dumb. it puts constraints on something that is constantly evolving.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Widem

they have been doing it since the first fabled for the masses quest was created, im still suprised anyone even refers to it as an epic questline. 99% of the time required in the quest is solo then they take away the only ability that doesnt make me fall asleep on the 1 mob you need to kill.

The whole shit of it is that they should have just made it some random NPC to hail an dget your item, because not only did they just ruin the encounter for the third time, but have now spoiled his entire loot table in the process of giving everyone a flaming sword.

BTW you have any idea how godamn annoying thats going to be?

I actually have no problem with a third Mayong myself. He is kinda cool and goes with the lore of the zone quite nice. If you had to kill this mob to upgrade your sod in the end it would not be any issue at all to me. If they woulda not nerfed mmis mayong it woulda stung a little less but still not everyone on the server can get one right ? I guess soe just really decided to go casual with this end line quest (Epic quest line is kinda a stupid name for these quest as widem points out. 1 epic kill does not an epic quest make to me.)
Money talks and what they see from their subscriber base must point to they will make more money this way . I think who really is getting hurt is the semi-casual and mid-tier raiding guilds on servers. The ones that don't compete for Avatars ,but have beaten or were getting good pulls in on mayong. You guys woulda at least had something to put your accomplishments over that of a pick up raider's alts. My gear will still show i was able to kill more of this expansion than you but my guildies 3 alts will be as good or better equiped then your mains. I wonder how much % of sony subscribers are pick up raiders because they are ones i see these changes going in for.

Rizam · 06-27-2007, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ballads

I wonder how much % of sony subscribers are pick up raiders because they are ones i see these changes going in for.

I am only responding to this line of your quote and it's because of personal experience. For the longest time playing EQ2 I did not have the time to sink into joining a semi-hardcore, let alone a hardcore, raiding guild (Plus I was on Nek and not wanting to be in Disso left few options IMO). The fact of the matter remains that time constraints and RL of the subscribers are factors in these decisions for SOE because there are players that want to experience the content and are whining and bitching because they can't get their set pieces. Well, when more people are bitching about not having shiny armor and fancy weapons, than are bitching about the lacking content and constant dumbing down, they are naturally going to listen the majority of the population.

However, I will say that I agree with everything that Widem has said about this questline. I do not have the time to bother with it, but after seeing the reward for such an easy quest I am certainly going to miss sleep a few nights to get something that is that good for the ease of attaining it.

Ballads · 06-27-2007, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rizam

I am only responding to this line of your quote and it's because of personal experience. For the longest time playing EQ2 I did not have the time to sink into joining a semi-hardcore, let alone a hardcore, raiding guild (Plus I was on Nek and not wanting to be in Disso left few options IMO). The fact of the matter remains that time constraints and RL of the subscribers are factors in these decisions for SOE because there are players that want to experience the content and are whining and bitching because they can't get their set pieces. Well, when more people are bitching about not having shiny armor and fancy weapons, than are bitching about the lacking content and constant dumbing down, they are naturally going to listen the majority of the population.

However, I will say that I agree with everything that Widem has said about this questline. I do not have the time to bother with it, but after seeing the reward for such an easy quest I am certainly going to miss sleep a few nights to get something that is that good for the ease of attaining it.

Did i mention that the third part of sod is a cock block timesink with tons of contested heroic named camping ? The only enjoyment i can see i will get out of it the flood of reports that customer service will get from people KSing, mob stealing/monopolizing, at the numerous and fucking retarded bottlenecks that this chapter is gonna create.

Narkle · 06-27-2007, 08:28 PM

They better take WB's out of Wuoshi's chest and add scales or a 3rd set of legs

Illuminator · 06-27-2007, 09:23 PM

A third set of legs... I think there are some people who wouldn't mind that at all...

Pinski · 06-27-2007, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminator

A third set of legs... I think there are some people who wouldn't mind that at all...

Yay more transmute/alt fodder!

Claria · 06-27-2007, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysidiaDrakkenbane

And at the mention of a DKP system in this guild, several of our core raiders said they would quit, which would leave us more in a hole than what we're already in.

My second guild had a modified DKP that was working for a while. But the players (who had the luckier dice) were getting pissed because they couldn't win the loot they needed and end up quitting the guild because of it. It literally tore our guild in half and left us with barely any raiding team. At Vanguard's release, the guild is a ghost town now and I think only a handful of alts and mules are left.

The guild I'm in now has several strong raiders, but we need to beef up our ranks. Raiders who are already in a raiding guild won't go backwards in progression, so we're left with people who are up and coming and need to be geared...which starts the cycle.

You are already in a raiding guild so these problems are an easy fix from the outside. If it was that simple, there would be more raiding guilds then there currently are, and there aren't.

I have a question about that second guild you were in, ya know, the one with the lucky dice people getting pissed they couldnt win loot and left. What could have people complained about when it comes to a DKP system? You don't actually win anything with DKP, you earn it. If you don't get an item you need, there are 2 reasons why you didn't get it, either you didn't want to spend the required DKP or you didn't have enough DKP. If you didn't want to spend it, well its you're own fault, someone obviously wanted it more. If you didn't have enough, then either the person who did has raided more than you and therefore is more deserving, or you have already spent yours on items that he didn't get, pretty much meaning it was his turn to get something since you already have. I don't see how any of that can be considered not fair.

Pretty much, DKP awards people for showing up and raiding, and makes it so that loot is distributed fairly. You may think /ran 100 is fair because its random, but its nothing more than just random. How do you feel being in the guild for months, and some noob who's on thier first raid wins stuff that you've wanted, then decides never to show up again. Thats why people get frustrated, just like Widem had said, they are essentially raiding for nothing, because they may never get lucky enough to win a /ran on an item, while some people may be lucky and win everything.

DKP awards everyone for their time, and ensures that everyone who shows up to raids will eventually get something, since, if nothing drops for them, they'll be accumulating DKP for when something does drop. It also makes people be smart on items they want. If you're in a DKP system, and an item drops, you're going to make sure that you really want it and its worth spending DKP on before you bid. In a /ran situation, a lot of times anyone who can use an item, even if they don't really like it that much, will likely roll on it, because who knows when the next time you'll actually win something is, and its better to get something than nothing at all and have nothing to show for the raid. DKP is just a better system in every possible way.