Apollodon

i do it on all my alts and i encourage EVERY healer in guild to do it
i love having the wand on my coer and i have the dw on my troubie but she is just a coer buff bot, and there for looks

the quest series is a ton of aa and if you do it at 45+ the gear is not that bad, most of the time i am finished with it before i am 57 so i cant even use the weapons.

I have done 5 times, zerker defiler brigand troubie and coer

Alt crazy yes i am

Ranthor

I think SoE just knows that the weapons are only gonna last what 3 months then RoK comes and they can start over on the new uber quest line. Bitching and complaining about it once its already been done helps not at all. change was made and now all the "noobs" have their weapons. shall we have a list made of who is uber enough to own one and then have said folks petition for theirs? thats what it sounds like to me. You want a timesink /petition.... that quest should last ya long enough.

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Troub Trainer <Aftermath> aka The Tribunal

Firza

1 : The reward is VERY good for 2 classes. 2 others are worthless. I as casual raider got a weapon that is better then weapons acquired over 1 year raiding by putting in maybe 10 hours. Yes, thats borked.
2 : T 5 combat revamp had NOTHING to do with raiders, or raids. It had to do with a fundamental change of plans for the game. Many raiders left, just as wel as many casuals left. What is your point?
3 : I play 2 - 3 nights a week Max. Is that casual? Anyways; Got it.
4 : You sir, are a depressed human. I like to work, and after a lot of work get the reward I wanted. Yup, Eventhough i am on the last steps of Claymore, I have not finished it yet. (will do so soon). The claymore reward I will never wield. This I will never drop....
5 : The shift in MMO marketing is not: Lets just hand stuff over. Its give a good challenge on ALL levels. There should be progression, but there should also be plenty easily obtained rewards. There in lies the challenge.

SoD as it stands now will be duo-able except for the last nameds.

RadarX

Oh I can admit the weapons DO look nice but are they better than what drops in EH/FTH/MMiS or not?

I made my point with T5. The only people still complaining about T5 were the raiders from back then. The game as a whole has made night and day changes since then and I have found very few people who say it's worse now (raiders being the exceptions).

I may be depressed but I obviouslly have a better handle on what the market wants. I also understand how running circles in MMC and camping spawns sounds really challenging (I sure know I enjoyed page farming for CoF) but it has to appeal to everyone not just you and I.

No, the shift is to provide progression to all player levels not just those who put in the most time and dedication. What seems easy to you will take the average player weeks.

And those last few nameds? Those are going to be what seperate people from the more hardcore. Sure there are PUG's for this stuff now, but what about in 3 months?

Firza

I think you and I agree that achievemt needs to be rewarded, the difference is just that you think that the market (whatever) wants to be spoon fed.

I think we disagree that the spoon fed fox will log out when they are asked to put in just that extra lil effort for an uber reward.

And yes, the legendary reward (at least for scouts) is almost as good as Wuoshi/rumbler drops. The fabled one is better.

And yes, collecting 50 statues in grey zones takes longer and more effort then the third part of this quest line.

RadarX

I'm going to go out on a limb and say you come from old world MMO's just like I do. UO, EQ1, DAoC, etc... Stuff was harder to do back then and the crowd was willing to do it. Times have changed, and players expectations have also. The challenge needs to be there but on a different level than we've seen in the past. You say people don't like be spoon fed, and I point to WoW which even a casual player can easily hit 70 in 8-10 weeks time completely solo.

Firza

your bet about me is correct, this does not however mean that I don't see what happens in modern world MMO's.

Saying that WoW is a succes because of the ease of the game is like saying you found a new theory that proves Einstein was wrong in the end.

The succes of WoW could just as well be ascribed to either or all of:
1 : Being a popular game many of us grew up with.
2 : Marketing
3 : WW attendence
4 : etc...

I am pritty sure neither of us can proof our points which makes it useless.

Whats easier to asses is if the so called "dumbing down" of the game brings the subscriptions we are led to believe by. (ie, taking 5 million as standard for a nice dumbed down game).
Since I think that SOE has been dumbing down the game for at least since T5/beginning of T6 this means 2 years.

Has the subscription amount increased? By how much? Are we anywhere near dumb enough for the numbers of WoW? Or should we dumb down the game even more and then can we expect to have more subscriptions?

The thing I agree with is that players do not INTEND to put down the hours we used to. This means for me that quests should have more sub levels. With more sub rewards. Not necessarily quick runs with uber rewards within reach of say....3 nights of playing.

Windraa

What gets me about SoD is that it's supposed to be the "epic-questline" of EoF. However, done at the appropriate level, every single HQ released with this expansion has a much higher difficulty lvl...
Hell...every HQ in the game is harder...
A group of lvl 40 toons spends more time finnishing Teachings of Youru then a group of lvl 70 toons spend finnishing SoD....

Cochy

Yes.


As much as this is what Sony refuses to believe no matter how casual you make this game it will NEVER come close to World of Warcraft. Contrary to popular belief back in tier 5 this game actually had more subscribers. The way I always thought of it was World of Warcraft had the casual market and your not going to steal that market. Sony should of made their niche the moderates to hardcores, theres plenty of the market here and if Sony had controlled this market the game probably would have more subscribers then a game without a vision.

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RadarX

Tier 5 was after launch so it's hard to compare. If you compare KoS to EoF which do you think was more successful? Most people would obviouslly say EoF.

I agree with you there needs to be sub-rewards and more options for people who want to go that route but if you dump significant develop time into something you want to hit the majority of players with it. I'm not saying I disagree with the way you are thinking, I'm just looking at it from their perspective.

You think that really would've worked with VG even if they finished making the game? The hardcore demographic is important to every MMO but it'll never support an entire game of it's own. If it does, that would be the coolest thing ever.