E3 Rise of Kunark Video - Page 8

Laodaron · 07-13-2007, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deson

It's funny you say that because my experience from the past tells me raiders hated endless trash- true the bulk of my experience is EQ1 but, people bitched endlessly about the Luclin time sinks. They also bitched endlessly about the trash clears in VT. PoP while highly acclaimed by raiders, was also run through at break neck speed because the only time sink it had was flagging. The only reason PoP took as long to clear as it did was because some of the encounters were impossible, zones were broken and launch Fennin Ro had a sense of humor with slow. GoD had the endless trash mobs and people went right back to bitching about uninspired raid design, time sinks, etc.
Ishbu hates trash mobs that have annoying abilities but to me, his statement also hides that while it annoys the hell out of him, it does up the difficulty(post is here ). I can agree with a need for sinks and such being a necessary evil but that's not hard, it's just time consuming. What do you want to actually make raids harder?This doesn't include time sinks but actual innovative scripting etc.- real difficulty. Start a post, maybe the collective ideas will keep you from getting crap design this time. Looking at the vid, I already have the distinct impression your going to be fighting a whole lot more environment effects like lava floors.

I can assure you that Ishbu, nor most high end guilds does not hate timesinks. In fact, I'd wager than most of them embrace timesinks, and want something that takes them a decently long time to understand and defeat. The CASUAL player doesn't want tough or hard or timesinks at all. In depth scripting is a timesink. No one wants trash that has stupid effects like stun and buff stripping. That doesn't mean that it shouldn't take hours of trash killing to kill a single named. The best part is this. After all of the hours that it took to get to this one named all that is on the loot table are 2 Master spells, and only one can drop at a time. Get that, AND master spells no longer drop anywhere except on raids....

Morara · 07-13-2007, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brodek

So Morara do you like killing the seedlings and seedling drake in EH or mobs like the one from the throne room, that stun/debuff/dispell the hell out of you that ever time you kill one you have to rebuff to just rinse and repeat?

That's not nasty.

Nasty is if you stop in one spot for too long, something pops and wipes half your raid before the tank can get agro.

Laodaron · 07-13-2007, 12:28 AM

Which should be the case. Respawns ftw.

Morara · 07-13-2007, 12:30 AM

It's just less traumatic with raids being as small scale as they are in EQ2. Seeing 40 people die in seconds in EQ1 was always a shocker.

Laodaron · 07-13-2007, 12:33 AM

I also think that there shouldn't be a single safe area in a zone due to respawns. If someone needs an afk, then /follow, while the rest of the raid raids. No more 15 minute breaks or anything.

SillyMonkey · 07-13-2007, 12:49 AM

I've just recently started raiding in pick up raids. I'm not hardcore on it, but it's a nice diversion with a chance to get some great loot and see places that you normally wouldn't see. Normally, I make fun of the hardcore, stay up until 4am on a work night, gotta grind to actually be eligible for a raid, raiders. I think you should enjoy the game however you want but the minute it becomes a job or you start screaming at someone over thier DPS, it's no longer serving the purpose that a fantasy game was designed for and you need to relax.

That being said, I'm not sure I like the ability to "save your place" as if it was a console game and pick up where you left off. See, as much as I make fun of hardcore raiders, I still respect the fact that they put in the time and the effort to figure out the proper tactics of a given dungeon and have earned the right to that loot by doing so. I've never been one of those "I pay my $15!! I'm ENTITLED to fabled gear through soloing" schmucks. If you do the work, you ought to be rewarded for the effort. This saving thing seems to eliminate the possibilty of wiping out and having to start from scratch thus truely earning your "Breastplate of Ultimate Studliness". I may be wrong, but that's the way it looks to me.

Morara · 07-13-2007, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SillyMonkey

I think you should enjoy the game however you want but the minute it becomes a job or you start screaming at someone over thier DPS, it's no longer serving the purpose that a fantasy game was designed for and you need to relax.

What's the point in playing a game, then?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SillyMonkey

That being said, I'm not sure I like the ability to "save your place" as if it was a console game and pick up where you left off.

The amusing thing about that statement is there's a grand total of maybe 10 PC games that require any sort of obsession to master, and I'm just highballing in case I missed a few. Compare that to thousands of console games (granted, most are arcade ports, but a few originals exist) that people work out the scoring systems for on a graphing calculator, and make logs of important parts of the game so they can filter out errors in their gameplay.

Arrr · 07-13-2007, 01:19 AM

Quote:

I can assure you that Ishbu, nor most high end guilds does not hate timesinks. In fact, I'd wager than most of them embrace timesinks, and want something that takes them a decently long time to understand and defeat.

yeah, but only in a fairy-tale universe do you get timesinks like that. Realistic timesinks are ones that everyone figured out in a few days, but still have to slog mindless hours into just to progress. They involve obscenely low drop rates or intentionally broken/too hard content. Then, once the top-end guilds have finished it, it's nerfed to be made palatable to your average raider. This is how it works.

Sure, it'll take you a long time to DEFEAT. But it'll take you about 2 hours to understand, and those are the very worst kind of timesinks.

winwin · 07-13-2007, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arrr

yeah, but only in a fairy-tale universe do you get timesinks like that. Realistic timesinks are ones that everyone figured out in a few days, but still have to slog mindless hours into just to progress. They involve obscenely low drop rates or intentionally broken/too hard content. Then, once the top-end guilds have finished it, it's nerfed to be made palatable to your average raider. This is how it works.

Sure, it'll take you a long time to DEFEAT. But it'll take you about 2 hours to understand, and those are the very worst kind of timesinks.

Good god, your name really makes me want a peg leg. ^_^

Bruised · 07-13-2007, 05:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winwin

Good god, your name really makes me want a peg leg. ^_^

Why? Didn't you already have one cut off?