Kisy

Rizam - your right the issue is not about the testers themselves - but Widem in his all mightyness attacked the testers themselves

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Widem

i attacked the attitude that they think that they are making a difference and that they think that they make any real progress in the game. The only use for the test servers is so that when they make changes they can see if the server just doesnt out right explode. You are not some elite beta testing group that finds every nook and cranie of what eq2 has to offer. And as far as raiding is concerned with what you say about not being able test raid content well b/c of numbers thats bullcrap. This stuff was being killed pre nerf with less than full raid parties and KoS gear. Shit the first time I killed mayong we had 18 people and 5 healers. That was before the global AE nerf and even further before they removed mayongs touch. Seriously the people on that server just dont have the ability to properly test content.

Whoever was talking about the stormhammer quest in kaladim are u fucking kidding me? most of that was done on live numerous times on live first and even at that it is so minimal to the gaming experience.

Most of the people on test dont even understand basic mechanics such as up to calculation and crit caculations...how is that beneficial at all?

Dreana

I think you're talking about most of the population period. I, personally, just play to have fun. I leave all the mathematical calculations up to others.

From what you're saying, only hardcore people should play on test? Has that ever happened on any game's test server?

Widem

you dont need to be good at the game in order to understand how it works...without this basic knowledge there is no way in hell they would even know if something was working as intended or not. all they are doing is playing the game as everyone else and when through the normal facet of gameplay they encounter a problem they bug it...welcome to every other casual player in the game.

Dreana

Understood.

I do hope they wise up and allow copies to test, wiping when needed. Not the actual test characters, just the copies.

Rizam

And I think that, indirectly, this is why we are getting more Game Updates, Live Updates, and Expansions that are geared to the casual players. While I still blame SOE as the sole reason that this is happening, it is obvious that when only casual players test the game and give casual player's version of feedback then the game is going to move in this direction. Merely another reason for advocating that SOE either hire their own people and pay them to test every aspect of an update before it is released, or to allow players from all areas of the game to test the content to the best of their ability w/o the restriction of having to start a character brand new on a Test Server.

More support for Widem's viewpoint comes from the fact that Widem, the other members of Dissolution, and the members of all the other top WW guilds is the sheer fact that they play the game at a higher level than anyone else and it is necessary that they test at that higher level. How would it be possible for someone to give accurate feedback on a raid mob that is not raiding under both the optimum and minimum conditions for that mob.

Mheryl

I have to agree here. There are very basic aspects of the game that most of the casual players of test do not understand. That's not just a test thing tho, it's a casual player thing. I find myself in chat a lot answering questions that just boggle my mind that someone even asked them, let alone someone on test. Then I sit back and take a deep breath and realize I'm talking to a casual, which is the majority of the player base.

Does that mean we don't deserve representation? HA, no way.

How we do it is another story. You do realize that if char copies were allowed for anyone, that every raid guild in the game would have the zones figured out before release, and it would just be a matter of who got the most people on after the update on patch day... do you want that? I don't.

There are quite a few raiding types who are smart, have time during the day when they're not raiding, and would be willing to be copied over for some testing. I don't think everyone should be allowed, but I do think that a process needs to be worked out to get more people over there. One suggestion of mine was that you actually have to level a character up over there on your own, before you're allowed the privelege of a copy. Not a fleshed out idea, but an idea nonetheless. Maybe your ability to get an idea across without having to swear, make fun of, or otherwise publically make a buffoon out of yourself should be another ;-)

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Mheryl 80 Warden/80 Tailor/400 Tinker
Irene 80 Monk/80 Carpenter/400 Transmuter
Sarissa 48 Wiz/80 Alch -- Pieta 32 Pally/80 Prov -- Escalia 42 Illy/80 Sage -- Chali 32 Ranger/80 Woodworker -- Caprisce 62 Necro/80 Jeweler -- Cailent 72 Berserker/80 Armorer -- Errol 64 WS

razieh

Raid content or any content that people would be competitive about aka epic quest ect.. should be tested internally. Copies should be allowed to test, I know I would copy over and test stuff like the AA changes spell fixes pretty much anything involving my class and things that would effect me. I know many other people that would do the same to prevent things from going live broken.

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Widem

completely agree there...if i were to test any competitive content i feel i would be automatically disqualified from whatever i had tested.

tracheaspider

I don't think the Test community itself is entirely innocent of the atmosphere on that server failing to promote good testing. I have tried going there several times and always get turned off by the elitism, even if it's not directed towards me. It might be coming from a small percentage of the regulars there, but it's a very vocal percentage and they're very committed to keeping their precious community free of any taint of people who don't see things their way. (Making your Live toons your priority is absolute heresy to their way of thinking.) Of course, they all think they're welcoming and nice as can be because they're always ready to take you under their wing if you agree to dance their dance and all that.

Yes, SOE is ultimately the one responsible for the situation on Test, but there's a lot of people there who need to get the fuck over themselves and ask themselves what they're really there for.