I love how SOE picks their beta testers. - Page 3

Calthine · 10-10-2006, 04:15 AM

You have the right to your opinion. I personally think you're just jealous, because your argument makes no sense, and implies mostly that you think casual players are crap.

Dystrax · 10-10-2006, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calthine

You have the right to your opinion. I personally think you're just jealous, because your argument makes no sense, and implies mostly that you think casual players are crap.

OMG you are reading into my posts. Remember when i said invite casual players?

How does my argument not make any sense? it's easy to say that without making a counter argument.

I don't think casual players are crap. God bless casual players. I am in a guild with a bunch of casual players, they are great people and fantastic players. I love grouping with them, raiding with them, questing with them. EDIT: hell, once i start working, i am going to be pretty damn casual myself...

I DO think that casual players do not have the experience with the mechanics of the game to test the content as thoroughly as it really needs to be tested.

I don't even really know if *I* would qualify for the standards i am setting, but i can assure you i would test the content WAY more thoroughly than the people with beta invites who cancelled their accounts.

My point is that so many pointless beta invites go out, when so many people who would love to test the content incredibly thoroughly are excluded. Correct me if i am wrong, but that is also the point of this thread.

Calthine · 10-10-2006, 04:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dystrax

My point is that so many pointless beta invites go out, when so many people who would love to test the content incredibly thoroughly are excluded. Correct me if i am wrong, but that is also the point of this thread.

I think they pick different people for different reasons.

I think casual players can have mastery of the mechanics of the enounters they play.

Pronoia · 10-10-2006, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calthine

You have the right to your opinion. I personally think you're just jealous, because your argument makes no sense, and implies mostly that you think casual players are crap.

I think it all depends on your definitions of 'casual' and 'crap'.

Are low play time players as efficient as high playtimers at killing solo/group/raid content? I doubt it - based on gear and accumulated experience, therefore they could be considered 'crap'. But that's a pretty narrow definition.

Are those same people more qualifed to test the levelling experience and low to mid level dungeons than the high play timers? Absofuckinglutely. Once you have a lot of experience and knowledge under your belt with a game like this, you start to become over-qualified to test beginner to intermediate level content frmo the standpoint of a new or returning player. That knowledge and skill starts to render the things you once found challenging, trivial.

That's why Beta test programmes have to include everyone.

I know some very high playtime people that don't raid but are very skilled and well geared. Although they don't raid, there is no way you could label them 'casual' players. A couple even have the play time to commit to a true, on call 24/7, hardcore raid guild if that interested them. They are not raid geared yet have completed Nizarra and can blow through any other instance you care to mention.

Even testing raids, if SoE were shooting for true progression through raid zones, you would still need a mix of raid guild skills to test progress and encounters - the more casual raid guilds would be needed to ensure the tier 1 raid zones were challenging without being impossible.

Bah, I've wandered and the post is getting too clumsy. It's someone's birthday at work and there are cakes to be had.

Pro.

Snark · 10-10-2006, 05:13 AM

I think SOE has the right idea by reaching out for a random sampling of players, but I think they need to adjust their approach.

They should have players form teams of 6 or 24 and submit an application as a team. Then they are assigned to a zone or encounter, and are given direct contact with a developer. This way the feedback can be evenly spread out, and the information returned will be exactly what the developer is looking for.

As a person who has beta tested an immense number of games in close contact with the designers, I feel that SOE beta testing in its current form is very unprofessional.

Tarsonis · 10-10-2006, 06:30 AM

Been a customer for several years not one beta invite :mad:

Ishbu · 10-10-2006, 07:14 AM

Am I jealous of people in beta? Not at all.

I am 100% strongly opposedt to entire guilds getting into beta and testing content though. They can downplay it all they want, but everyone knows that getting a month or longer to test content, feedback it, and have it changed based on what you, your group, and your raid are capable of dealing with is a HUGE advantage.

Since SOE places such an emphasis on who kills what mob first and who discovered what mob first, I think its complete bull shit they let entire guilds have this huge advantage over other guilds.

If my guild was offered an invite into beta as a guild would we accept? No. Not a chance in hell. I feel that is one of the worst ways of testing it available and its pathetic.

Thats my issue with beta testing, not who gets in individually. Just the entire guilds.

RadarX · 10-10-2006, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dystrax

OMG you are reading into my posts. Remember when i said invite casual players?

How does my argument not make any sense? it's easy to say that without making a counter argument.

I don't think casual players are crap. God bless casual players. I am in a guild with a bunch of casual players, they are great people and fantastic players. I love grouping with them, raiding with them, questing with them. EDIT: hell, once i start working, i am going to be pretty damn casual myself...

I DO think that casual players do not have the experience with the mechanics of the game to test the content as thoroughly as it really needs to be tested.

I don't even really know if *I* would qualify for the standards i am setting, but i can assure you i would test the content WAY more thoroughly than the people with beta invites who cancelled their accounts.

My point is that so many pointless beta invites go out, when so many people who would love to test the content incredibly thoroughly are excluded. Correct me if i am wrong, but that is also the point of this thread.

Casual players by definition do not play a lot. SOE doesn't have 3 months to wait for people to get to level 40. They need people who are going to do it in 3 weeks and have time to try everything and break it.

Do pointless invites go out? Absolutely. I'm sure there are a number of media that just showed up for the press tour and will never go back. There are others who are consistently testing, bugging, and providing feedback on what they see.

As for entire guilds being let in to test raid content? It's their beta. Who cares? It's not secret which guild they use, because it's the same one every time. Their game, their choice. If it's not tested right? It's also their fault.

Pronoia · 10-10-2006, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RadarX

As for entire guilds being let in to test raid content? It's their beta. Who cares? It's not secret which guild they use, because it's the same one every time. Their game, their choice. If it's not tested right? It's also their fault.

I care when, even after 'beta testing' the released raid content is full of fucking bugs that a moron should have found.

yep, it's their game and their choice but I start to doubt the objectivity of the testing when so many raid zones are fucked at release and some remain fucked for months.

Off the top of my head :Tarinax, bugged encounter making him easier then he should be - reported for 5 months or so before it got fixed. Vyemm - multiple script changes - at one time changing once per week. Venekor - clusterfuck from release.

"If it's not tested right? It's also their fault" We all know who's fault it is, but why is it not corrected. If some of these bugs / script issues were subtle or hard to spot I think raiders could understand it more. They are not, the ones mentioned are in your face from the start of the encounter balls ups.

If their test process with KoS let so many fundamental issues through, the process is inadequate for purpose. Let's hope it's changed for this expansion.

Pro.

MeridianR · 10-10-2006, 09:31 AM

I think most complaints stem from the fact that the same guilds (Second Dawn, Fires of Heaven, etc) are getting into beta over and over again....even though it was stated it is going to be random.

I DO NOT think most people have issues with casual people getting into beta, because as stated, lets face it....I personally don't care about someone testing lower end content, since I won't be going back and using it. It needs to be tested, and more casual or thorough people are the way to go for that.

The vocal majority of the complaints from Beta are from raiders who don't find it fair that the same guilds get to beta test the new content before anyone else.

I like the idea above, that a subset of people (or teams) should be formed in order to test the content. That would be a great way to test higher end content, without having a whole guild get days of practice at new content.

Also - just as casual people, complain about hardcore people not testing lower end content, please don't complain hardcore people shouldn't get into beta either, because while raiders might not test out the lower end content, how the hell can you expect casual people to test out the higher end content?