I love how SOE picks their beta testers. - Page 6

LFG · 10-10-2006, 12:12 PM

I have great respect for SD, FoH, and and many friends in each of those guilds and others that are in beta. So this is not a slam against any player or guild.

But, IMO, SoE's methods of picking it's guild beta partners are based on dev laziness and favoritism. Specific devs just keep reusing the same guilds for beta because that makes it easier for them and takes less of their time, since they have relationships with those guilds and a successful experience in dealing with them in the past.

I don't fault anyone for wanting to do their job in less time. I do fault people and systems that don't make a slight attempt to be equally fair or at least try to spread around a benefit some. What's being done now is just lazy, IMO. With just a tiny bit of effort, SoE could issue then review and accept beta applications from different guilds each expansion. Rather than only pick uber guilds who play for the purpose of attempting to gain worldwide firsts on end game raid content, they could also rotate in well established, stable and mature guilds (Bane on Blackburrow comes to mind) that are equally capable of testing raid content.

Until they do something to make things fair rather than strictly based on individual dev discretion and favoritism, I'm going to continue saying the deck is stacked and WW firsts on end game raid content DON'T MEAN SHIT in EQ2. And when SoE PR makes announcements congratulating its exclusive beta partner guilds for world wide firsts, as they did with NPU in the case of Chel'Drak, I'm going to keep saying this is fucking hogwash, it's ridiculous and offensive for you to pick the winners in advance by giving them advance information on how the encounters work, allowing them to practice the encounters before any other guild, and then issue a PR release congratulating that guild on being the first to defeat the encounter, because that's the MMO equivalent of saying a guild is the best worldwide.

This is hogwash, it's bullshit, and worldwide firsts by guilds given the opportunity to practice these encounters in advance are MEANINGLESS. This would be the same as giving one student the answer to a timed test and then grading the entire class on a bell curve. It is picking the winners in advance, period.

This entire statement by Gallenite is bullshit and misleading:

http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/e...=126813#M20104

Sure, at the TIME he wrote that, those guilds were only testing combat changes and not EoF content, but does he actually expect us to believe those guilds will not also test EoF raid content? Nice way to mix words, but we weren't fucking born yesterday.

I strongly agree with what Ishbu wrote in his blog about this situation. I'll just go ahead and copy that in here to save the trouble of clicking:

Down to Their Last at Bat

Well its about that time again. Time for beta.

Its no secret that raiders as a whole are fairly unhappy with the game. Lets review:

- Desert of Flames (entire expansion) Strike 1
- Kingdom of Sky (itemization and progression) Strike 2

So now we have Echoes of Faydwer. Will it deliver on so many unfufilled promises? One would hope so, however I am not an optomist. The glass is half empty here and beta is off to a bad start.

So far it is just the friends and family beta, yet the entire guild of Fires of Heaven, Drow, and Second Dawn are in beta already. Ne Plus Ultra and The Bekwen Alliance will also be added to beta as a guild, and possibly others. This proves that SOE has learned nothing.

With no level cap increase here is exactly what will happen when EoF goes live:

1. Beta guild logs in and rushes to some zone in EoF
2. Beta guild clears through raid zone/raid access quest/contested mob in first pull
3. Every raid guild that wasnt in beta doesnt even know this zone/quest/mob exsist
4. Should a non beta guild be lucky enough to stumble upon the zone/quest/mob they will have to pull and learn the encounter or explore or whatever where the beta guild will have perfected it during the 2 months of beta.

How pathetic is this? There is no level increase this time to even slow down the beta guilds. You might as well give them the laser goggles because unless the guild sucks, there is no way a beta guild should lose any meaningful world firsts in EoF. Let me repeat that, if you are a beta guild and you lose a meaningful world first in EoF to a non beta guild, you suck. You have a 2month head start. You will know the encounter, you will know where it is, how to pull it, what it does, how to kill it. EVERYTHING about the encounter will be common knowledge to your guild, where non beta guilds will be gazing upon it for the first time.

Congrats SOE on putting EoF in a huge hole. Calling off the "race" before the expansion even hits store shelves is the wrong foot to start on. And to the beta guilds, grats on beta info. I for one will not be impressed by a single thing world firsted by a beta guild. If your so damn good, you should have declined being in beta, otherwise its just sad in my book.

And for those who disagree with what I've written above, allow me to quote Clint Eastwood:

Go ahead, make my day.

3devious · 10-10-2006, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calthine

First I heard of that. Proof?

If you really need proof I can send you my beta invite that I got for DoF AND the cancellation emails for that time period.

Pinski · 10-10-2006, 12:31 PM

Grats SD on WW1sts to everything they beta test, since there is no leveling curve required to get them.

MeridianR · 10-10-2006, 12:33 PM

Drow in beta might be the funniest fucking thing I have ever heard.

They have Lockeye (Jared Sweatt - Dev in charge of all spells, achievements, and the gameplay designer) in there guild, here is his profile:

http://eq2players.station.sony.com/e...erId=105191105

So fuck you Sony for picking guilds who have Devs in them to Beta Test the content.

For what it is worth, Vagabonds could have been in Beta as a guild, but we aren't.

Pinski · 10-10-2006, 12:38 PM

For what it's worth, they should just find a guild that is willing to transfer over to the test server and be their official raid beta testers. That will give everybody else a fair advantage. No raid guild on live servers will be testing the content, and walla, it'll be a level playing field for everybody. Who cares if people on test are ahead of the curve? They're playing on test.

verak · 10-10-2006, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiara

I totally understand your point, but I still think you might be overlooking what is involved in some of the more major bug fixes.

I think the reason things go unfixed for as long as they do is because the logistics of fixing them are sticky and require more work than we think.

Not that I'm not willing to entertain the possibility that there might be times when the info simply doesn't flow. Communication problems are rampant everywhere. But I don't think that's the only reason.

just so we're clear, you are (indirectly) condoning the fact that soe releases products that have so many bugs that, in your opinion, it is okay that some of them take 5 months to correct?

Kiara · 10-10-2006, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by verak

just so we're clear, you are (indirectly) condoning the fact that soe releases products that have so many bugs that, in your opinion, it is okay that some of them take 5 months to correct?

Where did I ever say I thought it was okay? Not even remotely. I merely pointed out that we don't know what is involved in the process on their end and going off and saying that they are ignoring a problem might not be accurate.

Reading comprehension FTW!

Additionally. Do you honestly think that the devs would release broken content if they had it their way? Seriously? They have deadlines they have to meet and they fix as much as they possibly can before things go live. There are all kinds of other aspects involved in the process that I really think a lot of people overlook.

Just because devs work on the game and put stuff in, they aren't the ones pulling the strings and saying what goes out when. Just because I'm in accounting and say hey these things need to be paid, I don't actually have a say in how the department's money gets spent because I'm not the head chickie in charge.

How the HELL that translates to condoning the release of a buggy product, I don't know. But I will say again and stand by it, that the devs don't always have a choice about what gets released when or what gets fixed when. They have superiors and they do what they can.

Better by far to rail at the suits and bean counters than the people busting their butts and losing sleep and time with family to try and get things fixed.

Pronoia · 10-10-2006, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MeridianR

Drow in beta might be the funniest fucking thing I have ever heard.

They have Lockeye (Jared Sweatt - Dev in charge of all spells, achievements, and the gameplay designer) in there guild, here is his profile:

http://eq2players.station.sony.com/e...erId=105191105

So fuck you Sony for picking guilds who have Devs in them to Beta Test the content.

For what it is worth, Vagabonds could have been in Beta as a guild, but we aren't.

Ironically, a number of raiders have complained that the Dev's don't raid their own content and therefore don't understand all the issues. I'm all in favour of Dev guilds in Beta. I hope there's more of them tucked away in there. Anyway, when was the last time Drow firsted anything? Do you really see them as huuge competition?

Pro.

Pronoia · 10-10-2006, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiara

Where did I ever say I thought it was okay? Not even remotely. I merely pointed out that we don't know what is involved in the process on their end and going off and saying that they are ignoring a problem might not be accurate.

Reading comprehension FTW!

Nowhere in any of my posts (that it looked like you were replying to) did I state implicitly that they were ignoring the problems.

Reading Comprehension FTW1111!!!!!!

MeridianR · 10-10-2006, 12:47 PM

With EoF not raising the level cap, beta testing raids is a lot bigger now then it was in DoF, and KoS.

In those, you either had to get beta buffed, and learn your toon and the new skills, or level up to the cap.

Now, it's just form up and raid....big difference.

Besides after reading Lockeye post that Rangers are fine, and parses with his gimp Brigand on the official forms, then saying something as "Want a cookie"...I don't have any confidence in testing that is conducted by said person (and guild)