Ulric

Although I doubt it is a phenomenon limited to my server, Faxon (the OP) was talking about the GMs being in the 60-69 channel on my server, Nektulos. If the vocal few (not few enough IMO) weren't asshats on Nek's 60-69, the GMs wouldn't have to come out to "police" it. I think that means I am exactly on topic.

You haven't found the ignore button in real life yet?

Stoic

I am curious... why do you people who are so easily offended, turn off the filter? Its on by default so you had to turn it off knowing the implications.

Why? Seriously what would possess you to be tempted to be offended? Was is curiosity of what that person really said so you could understand the context and then be offended, or did you do it just because you wanted to assert your views on to others and to do that you had to be aware of what was said?

I mean seriously, I ain't poking fun here, I just want to find out the true reason you would go to the trouble to turn off a filter you KNEW would make you angry or offend you?

If you can answer that question honestly I will at least have respect for your candor, because I can see no LOGICAL reason why someone would tempt themselves so cruely.

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Ulric

The logic of implying, "There is a filter so I can say anything I want without facing any consequences" is flawed. The fact that the filter exists doesn't free you of responsibility for what you say.

I've spent many years on oil rigs, working a rugged job with rugged guys and living a rugged life. I can swear with the best of them, and in my regular day to day conversations I do. It's pretty normal. Even the tools I use day to day are "curse" words, or at the very least off color. Equipment/tool/part names like donkey dink, fuckstick, and bitch link are the norm. Hardly anyone even knows the proper names. No one ever asks, "Please get me the kelly locking stick." It's usually, "Hurry up and grab the fuckstick, you useless cunt or I'll skid your ass." I do however have to common sense and courtesy to tone it down where appropriate. I don't tell a waitress, "Get me a fucking cheeseburger, and make it snappy, bitch." For starters, I don't really want to eat a burger that she's spit all over.

What would you think of me if I walked into a church and loudly and explicitly talked about fucking your sister in the ass on Saturday, and said that she was a filthy, drunken whore. The worst word I used there was "fuck". What if I said the same thing at your Mom's dinner table, or in your 6 year old nephews classroom? Even in a bar which is a completely adult setting would that be acceptable to you?

Most people would say no and tell me to shut the fuck up. Can I say whatever I want? Of course I can, but I probably shouldn't. This is a point so many seem really dead set on not recognizing, and that's what baffles me.

Is it that hard to save certain kinds of talk for channels where no one cares what language you use? I see no logical reason why anyone would insist so stubbornly on trash talking everywhere. For every player that needs to lighten up and not get their panties in a bunch, there's another player that takes it too far.

Stoic

Thats the thing though! This isn't church this isn't a 6 year old nephews room this isn't any of those things. THIS IS EQ2, it has a teen rating and most people who play this game are above the age of 18.

An analogy only works if it is in context and your analogy doesn't fit in with the scenerio. You even admit that your job encourages you to speak those words thus defeating some other peoples arguements. Just because its manual labor doesn't make it any less important or the people doing the work any less intelligent. A word is a word. This game has a profanity filter in it to keep SOE from being liable and having to make the game a adult only game. However that does mean the people who turn the filter off which is ON by default are responsible. If they get offended by their own actions then I have no sympathy for them whatsoever.

If this game had no filter then I could understand your arguement. However since it does not then no person has any right to proclaim their self righteous views to anyone about profanity be it in public or private channels.

If you CANNOT handle the use of profanity turn the filter on and stop being offended. If the player cannot be held accountable for their own laziness then who can? Only you can prevent yourself from being offended.

BTW if the profanity filter didn't exist people would just find creative ways to say the same things. This is the god damn internet afterall. If you think you can squelch people's ability to express themselves in the way they choose your sorely mistaken.

Curious how many of you self righteous people have said "Oh god fuck me harder oh fuck I'm coming!!!!" in the heat of the moment. None of you are blameless, if you used the word for anything other than its intended meaning you have no right to tell others they shouldn't use said word. If its ok for you to say it to express yourself why is it wrong for others? Thank you and good night.

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Celena

Noooooo....I expect my employees to /fliter themselves with the debtors because debtors will find ANYTHING to bitch and moan about, much like you are doing. They call me and complain about my employees thinking it will continue to allow them to avoid paying their debt. I would rather my complaint calls be legit, than pansy whining, is all.

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~~~~Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.~~~

Windraa

Trying to figure out whats more retarded:

• Bitching at the GM's for doing their job
• Provoking when you know there is a high probablility a GM is monitoring chat

or

• Turning off the filter and /reporting when you get offended

SageGaspar

This is EQ2, where they said "don't use this handful of words or talk about this handful of subjects in this handful of public channels." This is not a self-righteous view, this is EQ2's enforced policy of not wanting "mother #$*&@$ I just went to the grocery store and while I was #$*&@ gone that Avatar #$*&$# popped and dropped the #$*&@ I've been waiting for for fscking evar!" Enforced by real, human GMs, because as you said in your internets independence day speech you can't stop people from getting around it.

And that's really it for me. I sprinkle the F-bomb liberally into every sentence under the sun in reality, but if someone says they don't want it, somehow I manage to express myself without annoying them or getting cockhurt. Frankly if the level chats actually got used for civil EQ2 discussion rather than the parade of mouth breathers they are now, I'd be happier because they might be worth turning back on.

Obsidian

madrix talks about the limited vocabulary of people who swear but surely by denying yourself these wonderfull tools of emphasis you are infact limiting your own vocabulary ?

but then again i swear so i must be intellectualy lacking ....

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Malachani

The Nektulos 60-69 is by far one of the worst I've ever seen. Its really disturbing the things these people talk about in public, and sometimes they can be even more disturbing without using a single word that would trigger the filter. So all you filter bitches would still see it.

See its not the words that are said, its the intent of the message that should offend. I have said "fuck" about... oh a couple thousand times in public channels, and probably just as many "shits" and a few dozen thousand "bitches" in my time. I'm by no means a "lady" in that regard lol! But the one time I get a warning on my account for language is when I called someone a whore. I mean, she is a whore, there's no doubt, but because her whiney ass and her little fuck buddies worrying she might not fuck them again petitioned me, i got a warning.

Yeah I deserved it, I gave that girl hell, but what I said was pretty damn tame compared to some of the shit I saw on Nek public channels, and I don't think anyone has been banned from there for saying stuff in a public channel. But supposedly, on Unrest, we lost Kelsett due to his repeated retardedness in public channels. Ya for selective enforcement!

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Ninibi

The intent behind the rules is to create an environment where everyone - sailors and the softskinned pussies alike - can be comfortable and have an enjoyable time playing a game. They are not there to infringe on your rights or enjoyment, but to be considerate of all types of people playing the game. The filters are there for personal preference from the user's side. The channels are not moderated thoroughly or full time, the filters are put in as a backup - to see it from the other side's standpoint, filters do nothing for phrase and context.


It is rare (if it happens at all) that someone gets banned/suspended/warned for cussing in tells, guild chat, group or raid chat unless there's blatent harassment going on, so your rights to express yourself in whatever manner you choose, verbally, are not quite corked.


Here's the thing with public channel moderation:

GM's are the only ones that can see up to the high level channels. Issues and GM complaints aside, given their other duties, and how many are online at one time, there's no way they can moderate all the channels on all the servers at once and be there to warn people. So, it comes down to whether or not they are online at the time or, if the person is reported. The alternative to this is a bot moderator that, as you found with the spam filter, does not have the ability to discern "testing limits" with actual rule breaking behavior. I doubt there would be a 3 strikes/warning system implemented if a bot moderator were in place.

Game Guides can only see as high as their own level and their level varies according to tenure and position in the guide program - so one guide may only see up to 30-39, another may see as high as 40-49. Norrath is not overflowing with Guides as it is, but further, Guides are player volunteers who are often on their own, learning the ropes, and left to their subjective opinion as to what is too much - some may report it, some may let it go, some may not even watch the chat channels while they're interacting with folks in front of them.


What is that quote? "the rising tide that floats all boats drowns those strapped to the pier" - such is the case for subjective situations where one person is a bit out of line, and one person is way out of line. You could get full time moderation that doesn't allow for any leeway, and drowns the folks who just slip up - or part time moderation that misses a few things.



I swear quite a bit, myself. It doesn't offend me - unless, granted, you're screaming and swearing in my face. Heck, language is contagious to me & after 2 seasons of Deadwood, I have a hard time not calling everyone a cocksucker (I <3 Calamity Jane). But, I think there are more important battles to be fought than whether or not you can swear or be explicit in *public* chat channels.


Being curtailed on whether or not you could voice your opinions about the game (to the point you could not even compliment a GM or Guide publicly) was, IMO, a much more worthwhile fight to take on. We've seen from these forums that being able to voice those opinions can change the game experience for all of us for the better and, even better, has hobbled a few really crappy changes before they could go live.

OTOH, I don't think you're really going to bring about any worthwhile changes if you can call someone a whore - likely if they're so aggravating to you, they don't care what you think about them, so freedom to insult or not, you're still stuck with 'em unless you /ignore *them.*

So, just to clarify, I'm not on a soapbox chastising people who swear or want to fully explore their freedom of vocal expression.

I am suggesting, though, that it's more worthwhile to choose your battles and pick up something that will ultimately change your game experience for the better. Your sense of self is not going to decay and fall away if you choose to be considerate of people less jaded than yourself in a public chat channel - you're not going to be less of a person and the "thin skinned pansies" are not going to 'win' any great battle. After all, if they're overly sensitive about you swearing, they probably completely unravel at the drop of a hat outside the game. And heck, they'll probably end up in a group with you one day & you can button push all you like. ;)

The idea there is not to - again - infringe on your fun and enjoyment, but to try to create an atmosphere where church folks and naughty satan worshipping necrophiliacs can coexist in some sort of wacky harmony. I actually think it's really pretty cool that so many diverse personalities can co-exist in one place and hold one common interest.

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