RadarX

There are and they are the profitable ones. They are actually doing something crazy and trying to expand the MMO market these days instead of that circle jerk of moving people from game to game. You won't attract new players with a complex hardcore game.

Talonis

But you will certainly run off current customers by dumbing down a game they've been playing for almost 3 years. /thumbs up

RadarX

So who is a bigger potential market? Jaded players or new players?

Realistically you'll get upset, go play another game, then come back for another one of their products down the road. Does it suck? Without doubt but how many times have you seen it?

Ily

__________________
Because I don't say it, don't mean I ain't thinking it
Next thing you know, they'll take my thoughts away
I know what I said, now I must scream of the overdose
And the lack of mercy killings...

Slippery

I'd be interested to see how many of the subscriptions are just multiple accounts from one person.

LeetPwnage

You won't attract any real gamers who are looking for a challenge and something interesting with easy-mode.

Most of the people that seem to be craving all these changes are the ones who only seem to have the attention span for a circle jerk.

The reason the MMO market is starting to get stagnant is that people are getting tired of working hard to get somewhere in a game to only have it all made meaningless for the "new players".

New players like that can go to hell as far as I am concerned. Stop ruining the good games.

If all the good money is with ADD dumbasses, then I guess I'll be keeping mine.

Shaggis

Actually the number 1 complaint I've heard of people leaving WoW to join EQ2 or previously Vanguard (when I was still playing it).... was that the game was too simple and boring. Of course my sample size is low and I probably only responded to people who asked questions I thought "worthy" of answering, but I think it should be considered people actually look for complex games.

I bet new gamers don't start in MMO's... they need a gateway drug first. So I think its relatively safe to assume someone shopping for an MMO is somewhat versed in game complexity and how that affects how long the game will continue to entertain them. Oh btw notice this was this guys first MMO *points at OP.

Also customers look for trends and with all the tinfoil hats in the gaming industry don't think having a reputation for "dumbing down" your game doesn't affect sales. Shit Vanguard basically sold many people on the exact opposite promise. Had they actually delivered on it... who knows.

I love my Claymore reward and will probably never sell it, because it felt like a great accomplishment. If I redid the quest again with the PH changes... I probably would feel a lot less attached to it and a lot less entertained.

And I have 3 accounts, but one of the things that attracted me to Vanguard was the *idea* of being entertained with a single subscription and not having to 3 box to keep from getting fucking bored.

RadarX

What kind of vague ass term is "real gamer?" The MMO market has easily doubled in N. America over the past 2 years. Why do you think that is? Because they are making challenging games? No, because they are making games that appeal to normal people. Every bit of statistical evidence has gone to show that what you guys are calling "easier" is working for company after company.

The reason the MMO market has been getting stagnant creatively, in case you were wondering, is because the genre has been played out. Everyone is moving on from fantasy games into other areas. And I fail to see the growth we've seen in the industry over the last few years as stagnant.

People don't want ginormous time sinks anymore or games would still be putting them in. The industry has shifted years ago and there are still people who refuse to adjust. I respect that but I'm sorry, you aren't going to be happy...ever again.

Morara

Real gamers play shmups. There are no exceptions to this rule.

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LeetPwnage

Only as "vague ass" as you stop using reading comprehension at, "real gamers who are looking for a challenge and something interesting".

When I mean stagnant, I mean now, like all the press that is out there talking about how it is stagnant, now.

Don't know when you played EQ2 last but there have not been "ginormous" timesinks in the game for quite a while. Sure things take time and effort and a little knowledge every now and then, but that appears to be coming to a final end.

Why does Sony apparently want to create a divide between the customers they have now and some "new players" out there? I talk about these changes to the game constantly with people in my guild and don't recall any person in the guild EVER saying they like Sony making their accomplishments insignificant.

These companies need to realize that you can't have people work on something in a game only to have all that effort thrown to the side while they step over them to these "new players".

I can see where you are coming from though, I just play the game, it appear you probably draw some sort of income from the "good press" this game "gets".