Go Back   EQ2Flames Forum > Class Discussion > Guardians

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-08-2007, 02:13 PM  
Regular
 
Character: Seston, Panix
Guild: The Seekers
Server: Permafrost

Posts: 119
Photos: (1)

Default Weapon Crits, and why ratio is besT?

Okay, so there has been talk about weapon damage and crit's... and what to look for in a weapon:

Here's what I've come to understand thus far, but i need help....


Combat Arts: When you Crit with a CA, the Crit is maxDmgofCA + [maxDmgOfCA+1]*30% so if your CA does 1100-1600 when it crits, it does 1600 + [1600+1]*30% = 2080

Weapon Attack: How does crits work with this? I was told that the larger the ratio between minimum dmg and maximum damage, the better your crit will be.

Like a weapon that does

71-213 damage will crit for a lot more than a weapon that does:
170-215 damage ...

Can someone explain the importance of the ratio between maximumDmg vs. minimumDmg for weapon attack?


I've done a search for this but all I can come up with is Spell crits

Am i just so lame that im the only one that doesnt know how this works? And thats why theres no posts on it?? >_<
Stevers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2007, 02:57 PM  
Show Don't Tell
 

Posts: 9,373
Photos: (0)

Send a message via ICQ to Pinski Send a message via AIM to Pinski Send a message via MSN to Pinski Send a message via Yahoo to Pinski
Default Re: Weapon Crits, and why ratio is besT?

Actually, CAs only gain a 30% bonus for crits, they don't go by the Max+1 rule.

As for everything you explained above, that's completely wrong. When you crit a CA, you will gain 30% bonus damage to whatever you would have normally hit for. However, when you crit an auto-attack you will do 30% bonus damage to whatever you would have normally hit for, and if that is below max+1, you will do max+1, if it's above max+1, you will do whatever the value is.

Meaning, swing a weapon that does 700-1600, it hits for 800 but crits, so you will do 1601, since 800*1.3=1040, which is below 1600. Now if you swing and hits for 1500 and it crits, you will do 1500*1.3=1950.
Now onto CAs however, if you have a CA that does 700-1600 and you hit for 800 and a crit, it will do 800*1.3=1040, and if you hit for 1500 you will do 1500*1.3=1950. There is no Max+1 rule involved for CAs.
__________________
How many times do you hear it? It goes on all day long
Everyone knows everything And no one's ever wrong
Until later...
Who can you believe? It's hard to play it safe
But apart from a few good friends We don't take anything on faith
Until later..
Pinski is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2007, 03:06 PM  
Regular
 
Character: Seston, Panix
Guild: The Seekers
Server: Permafrost

Posts: 119
Photos: (1)

Default Re: Weapon Crits, and why ratio is besT?

Lol. Gawd i suck.. Okay so whats this whole ratio idea i keep hearing about? With auto-attack and your weapon? Why is a higher ratio better?

I saw some weapons had a 31-273 [something like that, it was a ridiculous 9.0 ratio].

And thanks for the reply :D

Also, flame if you want guys, i just seek information ^ ^
Stevers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2007, 03:13 PM  
Show Don't Tell
 

Posts: 9,373
Photos: (0)

Send a message via ICQ to Pinski Send a message via AIM to Pinski Send a message via MSN to Pinski Send a message via Yahoo to Pinski
Default Re: Weapon Crits, and why ratio is besT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevers View Post
Lol. Gawd i suck.. Okay so whats this whole ratio idea i keep hearing about? With auto-attack and your weapon? Why is a higher ratio better?

I saw some weapons had a 31-273 [something like that, it was a ridiculous 9.0 ratio].

And thanks for the reply :D

Also, flame if you want guys, i just seek information ^ ^
Because as I said, if you have a weapon that does 31-273, and you swing and it hits for 40, but it crits, it'll crit for 274 guarenteed. Now, if you have a weapon that's 150-154, and you swing and it hits for 154 and crits it'll only hit for 200. This is why a large ratio is good if you have a really high crit chance.
__________________
How many times do you hear it? It goes on all day long
Everyone knows everything And no one's ever wrong
Until later...
Who can you believe? It's hard to play it safe
But apart from a few good friends We don't take anything on faith
Until later..
Pinski is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2007, 03:14 PM  
Regular
 
Character: Jayn
Server: Nagafen

Posts: 296
Photos: (0)

Default Re: Weapon Crits, and why ratio is besT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevers View Post
Lol. Gawd i suck.. Okay so whats this whole ratio idea i keep hearing about? With auto-attack and your weapon? Why is a higher ratio better?

I saw some weapons had a 31-273 [something like that, it was a ridiculous 9.0 ratio].

And thanks for the reply :D

Also, flame if you want guys, i just seek information ^ ^
The reason that higher ratio weapons are better is that generally weapons of the same tier have a similar damage rating. Damage rating is calculated as (low hit + high hit) / delay. Because of this, a weapon that hits for 60-120 damage every hit with a 2 second delay will be a 90 DR, but a weapon that hits for 1-179 damage with a 2 second delay would also have a 90 DR. With 0 crits, both weapons would average 90 damage per hit, but every crit with the 1-179 damage weapon would hit for 180-232 instead of 121-156. With that, you can see that the weapon with a large ratio between min and max damage will tend to hit much better numbers as the player's crit percentage increases.
lost is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-08-2007, 03:18 PM  
Regular
 
Character: Dantx
Guild: Confirmed
Server: Unrest

Posts: 830
Photos: (0)

Default Re: Weapon Crits, and why ratio is besT?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevers View Post
Lol. Gawd i suck.. Okay so whats this whole ratio idea i keep hearing about? With auto-attack and your weapon? Why is a higher ratio better?

I saw some weapons had a 31-273 [something like that, it was a ridiculous 9.0 ratio].
It's because with crits, a higher min:max ratio will yield more MAX+1 hits which are greater than 30%, thus resulting in more damage.

Take your example of 31-273.

273 / 1.3 = 210

That means every crit hit between 31-210 will yield greater than 30% damage increase which is 179 / 242 = ~74% of critical hits.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinski View Post
Buff the god damn Bard.
Dants is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-11-2007, 11:35 PM  
Visitor
 
Character: Chichco
Guild: Onyx
Server: Nagafen

Posts: 45
Photos: (3)

Default Re: Weapon Crits, and why ratio is besT?

But really all that matters is the Max dmg of the weapon, right?
I can see the benefit of having higher max damage = higher crits,
but I don't see how having a lower minimum damage is usefull, it just means your non crits will be less.
Chichco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-12-2007, 12:40 AM  
Used bullet holder
 
Grind's Avatar
 
Character: Grind
Guild: Malicious Intent
Server: Smolderthorn

Posts: 721
Photos: (12)

Default Re: Weapon Crits, and why ratio is besT?

If the DR's are equal, a weapon with a lower damage will have a higher top end.

DR = (Min + Max) / Delay

Example 1: (1 + 399) / 4 = 100 dr

Example 2: (100 + 300) / 4 = 100 dr

Depending on your crit%, will determine which weapon is better for you.
Grind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2007, 07:08 AM  
Regular
 
Souldreamer's Avatar
 
Character: Lurtz
Guild: Knights of the White Shield
Server: Splitpaw

Posts: 115
Photos: (0)

Default Re: Weapon Crits, and why ratio is besT?

Been playing around a bit and I think below is correct, not 100% sure though, feel free to correct me anywhere.

2 weapons with same DR but different min/max's

DR = (min+max)/Delay
Crit DR = ((max+1)+(max+30%))/Delay (assuming 100%Crit)

Weapon A.
1-149, 2 sec Delay = 75 DR
Crit DR =
150 - 194(193.7) = 172

Weapon B
50-100, 2 sec Delay = 75 DR
Crit DR =
101 - 130 = 116(115.5)

when on very low crit % it won't really matter which weapon you use because the gain won't be noticable. The higher your crit % gets though the closer you'll get to the Crit DR of the weapon.
Assuming a linear increase in damage with crit % increase the value of the actual DR of the weapon can be seen below dependant on your Crit%
[table]
Crit% A B
0 75 75
10 84.7 79.1
20 94.4 83.2
30 104.1 87.3
40 113.8 91.4
50 123.5 95.5
60 133.2 99.6
70 142.9 103.7
80 152.6 107.8
90 162.3 111.9
100 172 116
[/table]
__________________
Lurtz - Guardian (Raid Lead and MT of KotWS), taking a beating since 2006.
Murukan(Retired) - Brigand and Pimp extraordinaire
Souldreamer(Retired) - Warlock, Dungeon rug since march 2005.

Last edited by Souldreamer; 11-14-2007 at 07:20 AM. Reason: Being fucking special and can't get the table to show properly - Given up trying :)
Souldreamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2007, 09:33 PM  
L337 Poster
 
Character: Heal or Buff type things

Posts: 2,402
Photos: (0)

Default Re: Weapon Crits, and why ratio is besT?

And apparently the crit % you have scales against what you are fighting, atleast that is what I am being force fed by Skel and Leo.

But I personally do not agree with that as I cannot remember the last time I had a non crit melee hit on an orange mob(apparently only orange or reds show a noticeable scaling) when playing my Inquisitorwith 101% crit rate, 109% in raid with a bard.

But there is a parse of Leo with the same AA spec and having 109% crit rate having 11 non crits for melee against the orange named in MMIS.

/shrug

Like I said, haven't seen it on my parses or noticed it myself during fights and I only have my damage displayed in my combat tab and above the mob's head so its not like I'm just losing it in raid combat spam.
__________________
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.

Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.

I will face my fear.

I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.

Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.

Only I will remain.
pagansaint is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


Sponsor Ads


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:28 PM.


Design By: Miner Skinz.com Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.1.0