Emlar

Hi guys,

we recently enrolled a troubi who used to raid with the top raiding guild on our server (Storms). BTW, we are raiding T2 level on RoK atm.
He's claiming all the time that taunts are much more important than dps in order to keep aggro.
I've been trying to educate him, but it turned out to be a waste of time. He's still convinced that his former MT was able to keep aggro against 6K dps without much dps. Therefore, in the MT group, he's claiming that the warden slash bonus is of no benefit on me and should be applied on our swash (who already has a 93% hit rate), and a few other things that tend to irritate me.
Any suggestion to convince him before I give him my finger ?

Chumann

Ya, make him read these forums.

Taunts are trivial in the amount of total hate gain when compared to dps. For a matter of comparison, let's say your guard does 2k dps. The guard's best taunt is about 1,550 at master II with an 8 sec. recast. The other is 1,200ish with a 20 sec. recast. Since we know that 1 damage = 1 threat, the blatantly obvious thing shown here is that in a 20 sec. time period:

40,000 hate comes from dps (2,000 dps x 20 seconds)
3,875 hate comes from single target taunts (assuming you use it 2.5 times in 20 sec.)
1,200 hate comes from group taunts

Divide 5,075 (3875+1200) by 40,000 and you can see that that not even 15% of our total hate comes from "taunts".

Sangre

For T1/2 raiding, you don't need to worry much about taunts. But, as you get into VP and fighting avatars, you need to spam them as often as you can. In the early tiers, it's easy to hold aggro with dps, but once you get into the orange con mobs and having terrible hit rates, trying to hold aggro with dps becomes less and less. T1/2 you have about a 85%-95% hit rate, VP on named and even trash, that hit rate drops by at least half, maybe more depending on the named.

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blckbuster

isn't a taunts value that it isn't mitigated like damage?

Emlar

That was pretty much one of my argument.
Using sunday parser on venril, in a Guard/templar/defiler/warden/dirge/swash group, I was stating that my aggro was roughly equal to = (Taunts + dpsG) x 1.32 + 0.18 x dpsSw, where Taunts were approximately equal to 500 (I included Hold The Aggression and Infraction). With a 1.3K for me and 2.3K for the swash, my taunts counted for only 22% of my aggro vs my dps for 62%.
But he claimed all these numbers were rubbish and his experience was far more valuable than my maths...

Thanks for your support, and thanks for the advise Sangre, though I'm already spamming my taunts (I confess I 'm a bit lazy with Overmatch ).

Chumann

I don't understand the relevance of this. No, it's not mitigated by damage but that doesn't mean a whole lot since a dps parse is a dps parse whether that damage you're doing is being mitigated or not. If you're parsing 2k without your damage being mitigated or parsing 2k with some of the damage you're dealing being mitigated, it's all the same.

Just trust me when I say that true "taunts" equate for a small portion of our hate gain. They're definately a viable means of hate, and still usefull to cast imo since they still are the most efficient hate generation ability other than auto attack. But at the end of the day, your damage dealt is really what's going to generate the vast majority of your hate.

Conqueror_Beld

Well the first question would be: Why is anyone listening to a troub about hate generation on a guardian?

Lyger

because he seems to be a parse whore and sees the guardian in the middle of the parse yet able to hold aggro. apparently he doesn't even understand how his own deaggros work.

just because someone is in the top raiding guild, or was rather, does not mean they know shit about the game.

you gotta understand the nature of the beast, people who come from uber guilds tend to think they know everything and that their shit doesn't stink. meaning when they talk to you they are always right, you automatically don't know what you're talking about and you better listen otherwise you are doomed to fail.

uh yeah, end of rant on retards who think they know how to raid and/or everything about anything.

Anap KaSplat

Tell this troub that he should stick to buffing his mage group and leave the tanking to us.

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Fungie

Tell him to come say that crap in the Guardian forum.

DPS is 75-85% of an MT's aggro in raid, and the guard probably won't keep aggro worth a damn in T8 def stance without instinct. Apply poison & hate xfer is nice, but afaik, most guilds don't even put a swash in the MT group, and if you use one, he should certainly not be getting instinct. Few things are more annoying than a warden giving a scout instinct in an instance when they're already hitting 95% of their attacks.

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