Guardian Revamp Starting with what is broken. - Page 2

headbusta · 06-10-2009, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinski

Here's a tip, you're supposed to have it hard at holding AE aggro, it's called balance.

Show me where a SK has a hard time with anything, and I'll believe this.

Anyways, mutagenic burst, o stance, dual wield, and healers that don't suck make the books pretty easy.

stout · 06-10-2009, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frogweiser

Hold on a second, so you're telling me you don't like standing ontop of a mob and your autoattack not going off. Pffft...

Wiggle till you auto attack!!

Wulfghar · 06-10-2009, 05:30 PM

That would be true Pinski, except for the fact that the "alleged" ae tanks (zerks and sks) are able to hold agro on single targets just as easily as they can on groups. Whereas guardians cannot hold agro on groups anywhere near as well as we can on a single target. This is not balance. All ae abilities still work on a single target. Now I'm not one of these guards who complains alot about agro control or my class being broken. I kinda like how my guard is at present. I have no problems holding agro off a 150k raid. Keep zerks and sks as they are now, but I think they should have conditions added to their ae abilities that limit their usefulness on single targets. Something along these lines:

Deals 2,378-4,011 slashing damage on target if:
- target is a member of a multi-enemy encounter.
Deals 1,172-1,689 slashing damage on target if:
- target is the sole member of an encounter.

As far as the wording goes, its probably not accurate by SoE standards, but you catch my drift. And as for grave sacrament, keep the damage the same as it is so they maintain their dps potential, but on a single target encounter, remove the hate position increase portion of the spell.

Atavax · 06-10-2009, 06:16 PM

something that has bugged me about guardians is the guardian aa tab, crippling and stability line's final abilities are pretty much crap. cripple reduces damage of repostes when our mythical makes us immune to them, and got your back's immunity to non-direct aoe damage seems too situational. IMO, got your back should have an aoe hate postional on it and cripple should reduce the recast timer of all 5 abilities in its tree by 5 secs; possibly increase the number of blocks by block by 1 or 2 also, to make it compete with the new upgrades.

the guardian tab is the last place i want to put aa after i got slaughtering filled, i think these changes would make the whole tab alot stronger.

Pinski · 06-10-2009, 07:17 PM

They also don't have as much survivability as a Guardian. Or did you miss that part?

headbusta · 06-10-2009, 08:27 PM

They are a lot fucking closer to us in survivability than we are to them in dps/aggro control. Also, for anything where it's a real O SHIT situation Bloodletter being passive > something that requires reaction+casting time. Cause I'm sure every guard here has died during the casting time of ToS.

Davngr · 06-11-2009, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Emlar

Why not taking the WoE books as an example ?
Today, whenever I need to manage these bloody books, it gets me quite frustrated though we manage to bring them down.
What I usually do, I put a warlock in my group and cast both Sustain and Moderate on him. Plus Sentinel Sphere whenever its ready.
Still, I'm loosing too many guys from G2 due to aggro rip.

What would make this encounter less of a pain ?

Tinman mentioned removing Siege AOE target number limitation. I doubt it can be done since even locks and wizs have a 15 targets limitation. But it would obviously help to increase this limit to 15.
Same thing for the Agi AE art.
I would also like to increase the number of targets affected by Dragoons Cyclone, even if it means decreased dammage for targets after the 5th one.

that's actually not a good example man, the books have constant mem blur i seen sk's and zerks doing 15k loose agro almost as much as guards doing 5k.
best thing to do there is have everyone burn down the herroics first then finish off the epics and heal heal heal =p

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinski

They also don't have as much survivability as a Guardian. Or did you miss that part?

this was true in the past but other tanks have just as much survivabilty as guards now a days and on AoE encounters specialy guard stone skin is almost useless compared to almost unlimited protection achived by zerk and crusader abilitys.

Frogweiser · 06-11-2009, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stout

Wiggle till you auto attack!!

I use the jump back and forth technique, that way I stay in shape.

Daal · 06-16-2009, 03:08 PM

Guards are simply broken as a tank class....since they nerf'd our dps our taunts are all underscaled, our hold the line spell is crap an has been for more than a few expansions...hell even rescue is craptastic at m1 now.

The changes to our sta line abil's and our myth hit us hard overall on control...for those who tell us to learn to dps more thats a simplistic at best response and at worst crap...if I wanted a dps class I would have rolled one not a tank. Sad sony didnt have the balls to put through the tank changes in test but the bitching from far too many tanks who prefered to enlarge their dps parses instead of biting the bullet and geting the needed fixes in was pathetic...till soe fixes what needs fixing my guard will collect dust aside from the occasional crafting need.

Ower · 06-16-2009, 07:13 PM

Guards need a boost in singel target hate. No more AoE hate... thats not our job. We need the myth to be looked at to be in line with the other tanks.

Broken spells and shit and how they should work imo..

Start off with ToS.... Remove the shield dmg. If someone starts jabbing about make a fucking macro pls fucking dont... ToS shouldent dmg the shield now when zerks have the same fucking thing with 2 stone skins that dont.

Raid wide buff. Its very underpowered vs ALL other tanks that got some very nice RW buffs... add 5% max health as master since we are the def tank here. Or mit or 5% better hit rates

Sentry watch. make it until canceled and remove the range on it.

That fucking rooting shit... cant remeber what the shit is called but imo its junk and most often to risky to use at all... Make the root so you wont get KB and this buff would be fixed. Other than that i see it as a waste of hotbar space....

UW... Remove the heart shit.... Guards need a death save aswell... and this would help zerks aswell.

fixes that can be done to myth... Proc rate on controll effects could be looked at since there are alot of items out there that arnt that hard get that does the same but better and work with luck of the dirge and shit.

I would like to see something like on the zerk myth 25% inc dmg to hate to help us on hate. All tho have to be something diff maybe or we would get so much closer on aoe fights WE ARE singel target tanks we dont need or should have more aoe aggro.

dmg reduction proc... make it be up all the time... change it back to 10% is an idea aswell if they wanna keep it as a proc.

Thats some of the shit that could be looked at imo. And imo i dont see anything OP about fixing this shit. I see it as something that would make tanks more balance.

What do you guys think?