Davngr

so i have always till recently assumed that hate transfer happend before moderate, meaning that, if you moderate a hate transfer you still gain the same amount of xferd hate.

recently i have noticed that moderating swash was not working out for me unless they where the only "real dps" in the group(10K others 1.5k). so i started looking for moderate targets other then xfers(exept a good assassin needs moderate no matter waht).

so i saw some other guys speak of testing and such but untill now i really could not find a sure fire way to test and finaly lay to rest the xfer dillema.

i used my friends assassin(mine is mia on another server) she has adept1 hate transfer 14%(yea she slacks) and tranning dummys to try to get some figures that might bring some light to this problem.

my theory was that a transfer would show some hate ie. 15/100 on the hate window and in fact it did. i also figuerd that if the lower hate number relative to the total agro number that is 100, was lets say 14. then with moderate if hate xfer happend before moderate it would be 36% more or so. since the over all hate of the assassin would reduced but the pre-moderate hate would continue to belt out full aggression transfer. these where my findings:

i can't really say that they prove anything but if anyone has any insite on the matter it would be appriciated. as i said before i would just like to know what teh deal is.

Jokael

I am not gonna pretend I know everything about how they calaculate the hate with their mathmatics, but if you were moderated in the first ss test, wouldn't you have xfered less hate then 17% if your theory is correct?

You would tranfers 64% of your total 14% transfer buff, so shouldn't it be like you are transferring 9% transfer if moderate was reducing your hate before the xfer?

It looks to me you are generating 17% hate to the tank no matter what, being moderated or not. So does this not conclude that hate is xfered before threat reduction is calculated against the mobs threat scale?

Also for all the griping about never going to tank in DW/Offensive/AoE as a guard- nice to see you are running the spec.

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From a guard who says Guards were nerfd- he is in T2 armor and nonmythical-

Malevolence

It always blows my mind to see other players' hotbars and UIs.

I have no problems moderating my transfer. I don't care to go through the effort of trying to prove it, but it definitely feels like hate is transferred before any other threat modifiers. I think the best way to test it would be chain pulling x4 trash and have your transfer with no de-aggro, then moderate and have him run ignorant bliss and hit his hate dumps every time they are up. Have your other fighters not trying to be 2nd on hate list, only DPS classes. See if they are averaging higher threat with transfer de-aggros.

I'm not really sure if you can prove anything on a training dummy without a 3rd high DPSing class.

Steelbadger

That is the result one would expect if Moderate applied before the Transfer.

Lets just put the assassin at an initial hate of 1000
The Guard is at an initial hate of 0

Apply moderate to the assassin: Now the assassin is at 640 hate.
The Guard is still at 0 hate.

Now apply the transfer: The assassin is now at 550.4 hate (640-640*0.14).
The Guard is now at 89.6. 89.6 Hate has been transferred to the Guardian from the assassin.

If we now convert those numbers into percentages of the tanker's aggro (the assassins) we have the assassin at 100% hate and the Guardian at 16.279% hate. Numbers like this are usually rounded up so thus we get 17% as displayed in the test.

This is further supported by the non-moderated test. If moderate is applied before transfers then moderation should have absolutely no effect on the percentage values shown on the hate meter (it just changes the absolute values of hate, but proportionally everyone stays the same in relation to one-another).

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Davngr

not DW just use my range item sachet as secondary display, i do tank in offensive when i can and i been using AoE spec on and off for some time now.



yea i din't know if this would actually be a good test or not but it was the only one i could come out with that took all variables out and only showed xfer. this has come up a few times and for some reason devs always neglect to give a straight answer. go figure, ty for the inputs

Falken

I dont see why it matters to be honest, moderate with me always goes on the dirge, they may parse half as much but with no transfer and debuffs they tend to generate more hate.

This is assuming all parties are equalling skilled/geared

Ixer

I also always put moderate on the dirge, but mine parses nearly 10k on stuff.

Frogweiser

Always on the sin/swash.

Wulfghar

I tend to put mine on our coercer, but thats because he parses 10-12k and our swash is still gearing up and only averages 7-9 atm.

Jokael

There is no reason to put Moderate on the dirge, if he is ripping then there are other issues at hand. My dirge parses roughly 10k and rarely ever rips, if he does it is usually because he is wearing SoB.

Like Frog said always on either the sin/swash.

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From a guard who says Guards were nerfd- he is in T2 armor and nonmythical-