Uyaem

This is true only if the dps loss of the delayed auto attack is greater than the CA gain through the CA.
In my example, dps loss for AA delay, assuming we delay it for 0.8s (which should round about be the max) you lose 0.8s * 300 = 240.
Decimate will give you more than that in that time frame, so you win.

Now we do the same for a guard with ~800 STR and fabled myth, with more MC and DA and what not so easily 1000 dps from autoattack.
Delaying the AA would almost certainly net a dps loss.

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Deathnight

If the encounter is only going to last 12 seconds then parsing really isnt anything. Its going to be who uses the biggest spell. Referring to fights that last a bit longer than that. As a newly 80 guard though id first reccomend the new lvl 80 MC weapon that comes from those chunks of steel (forget the name and zone they come from) but the are pretty cheap on the broker, and a good waste of 3-5plat for 3 of them.

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Tesar

Uyaem is correct for longer fights on a gear gimp guardian. A guardian in shard armor with the Int line has about 60 haste mod which puts their delay in the 1.8 to 1.9 range. So they only give up 2 or 3 AA per minute by spamming their CAs, since I've never seen a delayed AA not go off even when a CA is queued.

Assuming a similarly geared group in zones they can do named fights are going to be 2.5 to 3 minutes so they are giving up probably 6 AA swings that would have landed over the course of that fight by spamming since their hit rate is going to suffer too since they are going to be in defensive stance on the named.

While they may have given up 6 AA swings over the course of the fight, conversely how many extra CAs will they have gotten in? At a minimum that's probably going to be at least 1 of each of the faster refreshing CAs, likely more, and all those CAs do just as much or more damage, with a higher hit rate, than AA so hence a net DPS increase.

Drop same gimp geared guardians delay to 1.6 and it's a different ball game.

headbusta

You'll run out of CA's to cast and end up sitting there with nothing to cast for 5 seconds every so often, so not only did you lose 6 AAs you also screwed your sustained aggro generation cause you aren't going to have CA's to cast in between auto attack once you spammed them all. I'll take 6 more of my avg AA hit of like 3800 w/ 100 DA over an extra gut kick or two over the course of a fight.

Uyaem

Yes, and would you call yourself gimp-geared with 100DA?
Didn't think so, so you missed what this is about.

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Tesar

Of course you will...you aren't gimp geared. LTR before commenting. We've been talking about gimp-geared folks for like 3 pages.

stout

if you full out spam your ca's you will run out of them and just sit around with aa going off only; Timing does not cost you any CA dps at all ever. Even if you only cost yourself 2/3 aa a minute(which isnt anywhere close to accurate) thats still 2/3 more AA's for aggro, which = more dps/aggro.

I will concede if you spam your CA's for a 10 to 15 sec fight, then sit around for 30 sec before the next fight you will do more dps and don't need to time aa. 15 on, 30 off GO.

With my 45 guard i used to play around with (who was basically naked/grey geared (stout on perma if you wanna look him up) timing aa's always, 100% of the time, increased my dps, and yes I always ran a parser playing this game.

So time your aa's or have 2x as much downtime as fight time. The choice is yours, good hunting.

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stout

You keep trying to sell this, let me explain more clearly.

As this is a poor gear discussion, Ideally you AA/CA CA/aa/ ca ca AA/ CA CA aa. (Just like well geared peeps using 4sec delay weapons) If you AA/ca ca ca/ AA/ ca ca ca AA you are delaying your AA all the way down the entire length for the duration of your fight every rotation. It doesnt matter if the 3rd CA is Decimate, you dont delay your aa for the .2 sec to get decimate down faster (ps always lead with decimate when able). Its a minute recast, and as this is a group zone discussion you are only getting one off on the fight anyway.

I challenge you to show me a parse with your CA's doing more damage through a zone vs the same zone timing. Its a myth, short of long down time between your pulls your ca damage will be consistent.

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Davngr

i play a poorly geared guardian and have been playing one since dof/kos.

if the fight is over 25 to 35 secs (by this time all your ca's and rescues are spent) you will loose aggression generation if you don't time auto, since auto attack is your best hate source even gimped.

the reason i know this, is because in kos (before 3 lines where possible) i was having a hard time finding a build that game me the agro i wanted. i tried str/wis, str/int, str/agi, str/sta because i wanted crits and hate gain (i was noob like that). of all those builds STR/STA was the one that gave me with out a shadow of a doubt the best agro (not to mention survivability). why is that? because guard CA's suck so INT casting bonus did very little for me. i actually ended up dropping STR and tanking a WIS/STA build (before mitt changes) just cos it suited my play style best.


now i take that experience and factor in T8 weaps and you come to the conclusion that timing auto attack is what guards that excel do period, regardless of gear.


btw. my weap in dof/kos \aITEM -71537628 -143589365:Soul Harvester\/a yes i used a lvl 40 weap that my necro looted farming shakey till eof.. rotf