So, I just betrayed

Ahbrams · 05-31-2007, 02:24 AM

I'm two days in to being a guard. I was MT for our guild as zerker but everyone seems to think we need a guard. Initial thoughts, guards are gimp versions of zerkers? I may have the wrong mindset, being that I've played as a zerker for two years, but man, I just dont see the benefit. Sure its nice to has ToS and plant in emergency situations, but overall, I'm just not seeing it.

As a zerker i was 100% mastered. as a guard I have all T7 spells mastered, but none of the t6 ones =/

Anyway, I don't appear to be taking hits any better, although when trying to figure out rumbler tonite a lot of that stuff came in handy. One thing that really is bugging me is that I cant figure out how to hold hate on AOE encounters. As a zerk, it was cake, I never lost aggro....now I cant hold it. Can anyone give me some help? I have the str AA line hate capped, I have Cloak of Vikmont and I even bought the shitty belt with hate proc on it from MMC. I don't think they helped tho. When I pulled up ACT tonite after the raid it looked like Vikmont only proc'd 44 times all night and the belt only proc'd 13 times. So, I guess my question is, how can I hold AOE hate better? Reinforcement sorta helps, but the big benefit of that is moving up hate list quickly, so it seems silly to use that before I lose hate on anything. I have a dirge and swash giving me hate, and swash usually parses 1600 or so, but I still cant hold AOE hate. ( I hold single target great tho)

My typical cast order on a pull is single taunt, group taunt, retaliation strike, goading assault (which is only ad3), call assist, then tab target and land another attack on each mob, back on original

am I doing something wrong, shoudld I cast differently? Any help would be appreciated.

Feefai · 05-31-2007, 03:57 AM

If the swashy dumping hate to you is MA or is at least assisting properly, you should be able to cycle single target taunts/big CA's on all mobs in the encounter while he takes care of hate on the raid's target, those CA's being flay, retaliation strike, precise strike, and obliterate. You should have vindictive strike aa capped in guardian tree so it should be 1200-1400 ish, and seeing as how its a guardian's fastest recast ability its a damn nice tool for cycling on multi-mob encounters.

Tell your heavy AE dps to back off until the mobs are in melee range of you and have stopped moving. Once mobs quit moving, plant and use protection and confront on MA's target, then cycle your 5 other single target threat gainers on the remaining mobs in the encounter, returning frequently to the main mob to throw confront on it. You should have at least 2 solid threat generating CA's/taunts on all mobs before plant wears off. Only use Goading Assault if everything else is on cooldown imo. Camera panning + tab is your friend, you'll soon learn to get your tab/taunt rhythm down to keep aoe hate.

You're better off than I am as I don't have the cape or sash, so you should be fine with some practice.

Basically Guard's make better MT's (mechanically speaking) due to call of armament, return to war, plant, reinforcement, and tower of stone (and arguably sentry watch - which has saved my healers on avatars and such many times). But I know of several guilds which do more than just fine with a zerk MT. I've leveled both classes and find Guardian more fun to play, even if its more difficult to manage ae threat.

Btw, Besiege and Dragoon Spin both work with Reinforcement for a quasi ae-rescue effect if the mobs aren't moving out of melee range.

Mechasean · 05-31-2007, 01:57 PM

Hmm, well I know that the AOE hate is harder as a guardian, zerks are just better suited for it, but I don't understand how you haven't noticed a difference in damage taken. I wonder what your AA spec is, mind posting it?

Ahbrams · 05-31-2007, 02:06 PM

Here's my warrior AA line

and heres my guard AA line

kascall · 05-31-2007, 07:33 PM

Hey Ahbrams....ignoring mit of course here but where ya at avoidance wise solo? If u havent seen a difference in the dmg intake something is up cause i watch our zerks get smashed on stuff i stand and laugh at most the times. You should be able to clear 60% avoidance solo, with some cheldrak and EoF gear in the right slots u should break 63+% solo i would imagine. So in MT group you should be close to or over 70% avoidance, if u arent i would start looking to see why not.

Ahbrams · 05-31-2007, 08:19 PM

As far as avoidance goes, the only thing I gained when I betrayed was the 24 def from Call of Armorment. I was already spec'd for max defense as a zerker, so no big boost. Right now self buffed in def (my stance is only ad3 /cry) im at 8816 avoidance which is 57.4%

My defense is 451 self buffed and my parry is only 388 (I still need cheldrak's ring and I currently have no EOF gear now that im guard, with exception of Hoop of War)

I was good at taking hits as a zerker so thats not really my issue. I cant hold AOE aggro and it enrages me cause holding aggro is basically my only job =/

Judist · 06-01-2007, 10:48 AM

Remember reinforcement isnt just a better rescue. It's an excellent hate generating tool even when you already have hate. For example on a single target have a necro LB right after pull and plant/reinforce it. You'll keep the mob and gain a huge buffer of hate over the rest of your raidforce.

For multi-mob encounters try calling out reinforcement (make sure your AOE classes are ready to go all out) then quickly plant the encounter. Just be sure to get your AOE's in right before plant/reinforcement ends.

When it works out correctly you'll remain #1 on hate and your DPS classes will have burned their big AOE's leaving you safe for awhile. Looks like your spec'd cyclone which will also make reinforcement sing.

Ahbrams · 06-01-2007, 07:02 PM

I'm sure I'll get a better feel for it as we continue to raid, but is the consensus here that if I'm pulling a group encounter I should plant, reinforce and tell the dps to go nuts? I'm also trying to work it out so that the dirge hits COB when I reinforce to get more swings.

stout · 06-01-2007, 09:03 PM

when you use reinforce have a fast weapon attached to it (aka macro) . ilke i hit reinforce and my right hand of the priestess(1 delay) pops on so i get alot more hits with it. I personally save plant for after i blow all my aoes, if you use plant right away then its down after your first tuant cycle. Using plant last in the order gives you 24 secs of aoe aggro (baring newbs aoe'in as you run into your tanking position.

quick recap. on pull I strat with an aoe taunt bouncei single taunt 2 adds.. obliterate the 3rd while hitting my protection + besiege.. followed by plant THEN reinforcement (gives you 12 secs to really lock them to you. Then its just bouncing on the adds as you can through the fight.

Mechasean · 06-03-2007, 04:09 PM

On the multi mob encounters, I hit protection, reinforce THEN besiege, plant and then sometimes the assault CA. this gives you 3 taunts to everything in the area plus roots them in a matter of seconds. After that you can cycle through the encounter hitting them with big CA's or single target taunts. If your fast enough you can cycle through them while reinforce is still up giving you even more taunts. This is really good for locking aggro unless you have a warlock going nuts.. I'm not sure what you can do then.

I also noticed you did not go with the Sta line, for aggro it's hard to beat. You obviously went full on defensive which is fine but you will trade a little aggro for this. Also are you tanking in Defensive stance?