Avek

The cure is there your just not wanting to take it. str 4/4/4/8 sta 4/4/8/8/ agi 4/1

Listen i realise that you might want to have your tower shiled on but really why? you seem to be really only a group tank, you seem not to have the hate gen needed?
why are you putting yourself thru this?

Tower of stone can be macroed onto your tower shield so if you switch to it it casts that ability at the same time, hence you still have that ability and you just click on your buckler that you hotkeyed and go back doing mass damage.

For your group encouters are you rotating thru the mobs to help hold agro?
Are you useing HO's like you should?

If anything try the buckler sec you want your guardian to be fun this will help make it so.

If not str 4/4/8/8 Agil 4/4/8/6/1

when you use your reinforcment use your plant last (remember reinforcment adds its effects to plant as well) also remember to add in the dragoons spin with reinforcment.

If you only have one add it is better to just hit reinforcment and toggle them useing your single CA's and then after reinforment is done useing group aoe/taunts. and then plant for a final 12 seconds of locking down the mobs.

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It is not the critic who counts;not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles,or where the doer of deeds could've done them better. The credit belongs to the man in the arena, whose face is marred by dust,sweat and blood;who strives valiantly,who knows the great enthusiasms,devotions;who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end of triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly.

pagansaint

Not having Stamina line is the biggest problem.

The taunts are there to secure you at the top of the Hate list not to get you there on their own.

You are lacking the damage generation needed to climb and/or stay at the top of the list. Without double attack you are losing about 2/3 of the triggers of Reinforcement that a double attack Guardian is using. Thats ALOT of hate and the increase to position can keep you at the top no matter what your DPS does to the mob.

I find it exceedingly ironic that you, coming from a swashbuckler tank, don't understand why your swashbuckler build is keeping better aggro. DPS is your problem, you are probably, at best, only putting out around 400 maybe 500 DPS with your tower shield while your DPSers are doing well over double that and spiking for atleast five to six times that much damage.

If you must keep the agility line, use agility/strength/stamina 4-4-8. A much stronger(cookie cutter) setup for keeping aggro would be strength 4-4-8-8 stamina 4-5-8-8.

My guardian uses strength 4-4-8-4 stamina 4-4-8-8 intelligence 4-1 and doesn't have a problem, but as soon as I can buy, bully or blackmail my way into a Grim Brimstone Hammer for him he will be the same strength/stamina and the intelligence put into agility for the AoE for use with Reinforcement or 2 points into the stamina end line and the rest into hate generation percentage in strength.

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Backin

IT is not that I must keep the AGI line, it is the fact that I do not believe in being a guardian wearing a buckler. Best shield I have atm is the Draconic Deflector.

With the new changes coming up in the next LU, I predict a lot of guardians are going to be thinking about different things and this is why.

Dragoon's Cyclone is going from 24% to 40% at rank 8.
Double attack is being nerfed as far as how often you will double attack AND reinforcement will not longer proc on the second attack of a double attack
The loss of 8% chance to block for increase in riposte. How much more damage will this cause a tank vs a Kite or Tower shield (Tower and Kite shield still shard the same base block right or was that changed?)

I still have a few things I want/need before I say fuck it pretty much and just let this char retire. I am missing many things that would help in all aspects of a guardian.

It will be interesting how the LU affects guardians.

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Honest 80 Guardian - Main Tank for Sanctus Immortalis on Neklutos
Backin 80 Swashbuckler
Spiritist 80 Templar

pagansaint

That 40% is still not going to be worth much at all except in the case when you are using reinforcement to get aggro back on an encounter.

Thats 40% of the auto attack damage, if you can garuntee that it will hit atleast 3 mobs every time it procs you will notice a DPS increase, if not, you won't.

I'm much more interested in the changes to acceleration strike and the weapon requirement removed from executioner's wrath.

I agree that it looks funny for a tank to be using a dinner plate, but eh, if it works best, it works best.

This change only makes the grim brimstone hammer and its double attack bonus more important to have/use along with the double attack from the guardian slaughtering line.

The decreases to the hate transfers will make any DPS you can squeeze out more important.

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mythical

My solution for hate

Str 4 4 8 8 2
Agi 4 4 8
Int 4 8

This would give u str line benefits including max hate max crit with 40% ae dmg from agi and the 25% casting haste and recovery from Int line.

OR

Str 4 4 8 8 2
Int 4 8 4 6 2

This would give str line benefits plus int line Parry 25% casting haste and recovery plus an additional 30% recovery and 12% reuse.


Either are promissing which to choose will have to be tested when it goes live but I am guessing this will be the new cookie cutter tank spec.


As for the buckler well dirges will get some double attack you got your trusty hammer and of course 10% from EoF line so deal and enjoy faster casting a tower tanking.

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pagansaint

I don't see your MT dirge spec'ing out of heal, spell and melee crits or AE immunities to get 10% double attack. The loss of heal crits for your healers will hurt much more than you will gain.

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Pinski

I see most MT dirges specing out of AE Avoid. It's nice, but not super useful, plus they're usually the group with the most HP and can take the AEs more often than not.

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Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Dissolution on Nektulos
Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Confirmed on Unrest

Ulric

When I first started to raid tank I had starter gear and survivability was an issue. I felt I really need three healers (templar, defiler, warden) to survive. We rolled best with (Guardian, Templar, Defiler, Warden, Dirge, and Swashbuckler or Assassin).

I got better gear and survivability was less of an issue. I was hesitant at first (ie, I needed a LOT of convincing) but we dropped the warden and picked up a Coercer. I grew to love it. I still love it. It helped my dps, my scouts dps, added thoughtsnap (mini rescue), buffed the groups AGI and INT, and with Channel she could redistribute group power for bad power problem fights. It allowed the dirge to stop playing Bria's (power regen song) and add a better song in there too. For the harder encounters we'd swap a Warden back in the MT group but didn't need to often.

Now that the EQ2 community is assuming (and I'll go along with that assumption) there is a 50% cap on hate gain (the dirge and coercer both buff this), some players want to take the coercer out of the MT group. I'd still rather keep the coercer and have her put her Enraging Demeanor (hate gain buff) on me which is superior to the dirge's from a % perspective and continue with her Ease skill (power regen buff), and have the dirge NOT give me his Hyran's Seething Sonata (aggression/hate gain buff) or play Bria's (power regen) allowing him to instead buff: group parry, group stoneskin, group STR/AGI, group DPS, and group disease damage proc. Those last two songs help my dps, the dps of my hate transferer (swashbuckler or assassin), and the dirges dps immensely.

Am I being a greedy [insert bad word here] by wanting to keep both the dirge and coercer?
If we don't keep the coercer, where is the best spot for her? A scout group?

I really want to keep them both, but I'm asking you guys for a confirmation or a reality check. Maybe I need one because I want to keep them both and it bothers me that they want to mess with what is an awesome MT group set up for me. Opinions? Thanks.

Pinski

You could hate buff your swash/assassin in the group from the dirge, and have the coercer hate buff you for ultimate aggro.

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Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Dissolution on Nektulos
Calaglin, Former Illusionist/Guild Leader of Confirmed on Unrest

pagansaint

True. But some fights are a complete bastard without AE immunities. Well actually if you use a swashy for your hate transfer and have him spec'd into AE immunity you definitely should have the dirge spec into Stamina instead of Strength, would make much more sense that way. To me atleast.

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