Guardian Guide - Page 2

Grind · 08-08-2007, 01:57 PM

Finally got a chance to go thru the post. I skimmed the AA/Equipment stuff cause its been discussed before.

- The arguement that the riposte from buckler, parry from wrists and such is uncontested. Well i dont agree with that. Now that ACT parses avoidance, i've observed the numbers are for being supposedly "uncontested" doesnt add up.

My block value is almost always bang on what it suggests it is in the tooltip. However my other values are far from. I'm always disappointed with my listed parry values. My parry/riposte will add up to between 4-8% of my overall avoidance. Block will be 13-17% (with buckler) and 25-28% with tower. Base misses are usually my 2nd highest value (since the tooltip says it's 38-45% (something like that anyways, between buckler and tower) and it floats between 15-25% of my overall avoidance.

When refering to contested avoidances, i believe that mob melee skills are also part of the check.

- Inregards to mitigation, suggesting that getting up to 6k is wise, i'll disagree with. Wearing plate armor and not going out of your way for +slash/crush/piercing resists, you'll end up at about 61-62% mitigation with a healer mit buff. Concentrating on hitpoints and Avoidance abilities (parry/defense) on your gear will result in better use of slots than going out of your way for melee resists. Basically i'm saying just wear plate armor and your mit will be where it should be. Concentrating on mitigation when your already at the point in the curve where the returns are not worth the investment is just that, not worth the investment.

- I've been trying to get a nice big pool of data for the avoidance parses to post something. Unfortunately i've been finding myself hard pressed to use a tower shield most of the time, so that pool of data is still very small.

- For bows: Add Longarm. 50m bow from zek. Great for those extremely long pulls in EH, and some other places.

Good post overall though.

Grind · 08-08-2007, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wart

Great post Hally, was wondering how you knew what CA's were and weren't being upgraded via RoK....

The rule of thumb was spells are upgraded every 14 levels. Since we're going from lvl 70-80 (ten levels), four levels of spells wont be upgraded. Always the last spells we get, so lvl 67-70.

This is suppose to change come RoK, to something of a 10 upgrade pattern.

Halbarad · 08-08-2007, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grind

- Inregards to mitigation, suggesting that getting up to 6k is wise, i'll disagree with. Wearing plate armor and not going out of your way for +slash/crush/piercing resists, you'll end up at about 61-62% mitigation with a healer mit buff. Concentrating on hitpoints and Avoidance abilities (parry/defense) on your gear will result in better use of slots than going out of your way for melee resists. Basically i'm saying just wear plate armor and your mit will be where it should be. Concentrating on mitigation when your already at the point in the curve where the returns are not worth the investment is just that, not worth the investment.

Written this unclear... yes, I meant the group mitigation value... not your stand alone mitigation value... if you are at 5.9k+ in groups, you dont need more mit... That's what I meant... will rephrase it to make it a bit clearer. Thanks!

Quote:

- For bows: Add Longarm. 50m bow from zek. Great for those extremely long pulls in EH, and some other places.

Nice, will look it up, thanks!

Quote:

Good post overall though.

Thanks!
/bow

Halbarad · 08-08-2007, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grind

The rule of thumb was spells are upgraded every 14 levels. Since we're going from lvl 70-80 (ten levels), four levels of spells wont be upgraded. Always the last spells we get, so lvl 67-70.

This is suppose to change come RoK, to something of a 10 upgrade pattern.

Yeah... and when I wrote this, the 10 level change wasnt posted anywhere I found it

Will include this in the final version which will come after collecting all the input here

Thanks again all for your replies! :D

kascall · 08-08-2007, 05:57 PM

dunno how u can figure a *new* tank would want 2% crit over +7 defense...most tanks i see running around with gear u mention are almost 10% solo avoidance LOWER then mine which is roughly 63.3% and almost 1.5k-2k lower on hps with mine right under under 10k hps.

best way for the tank to live is to not get hit, mit isnt near as important as avoidance, after 5500 in tank group...the returns jsut arent there like in KoS time frame where a tank wanted 6k+.

Ask Grind how much easier it is to survive when your defense is over 450 as is parry(with dirge buffs).

As to my warrior AA its str-4/4/3, Agl-4/4/8/6/1 and Sta 4/4/6....i still crit alot yet have agl line when i need it or i can go buckler and still pull more dps on trash to help out agro...more of a well rounded tank then full defensive or all offensive.

Grind · 08-08-2007, 06:13 PM

Just logged on: My mit with a priest is 5029 (mind you, leather boots) which ends up being 60.9%.

In groups i rarely have the dirge parry buff anymore. Dirge will typically be full offensive buffs, with occasionally percussion on, depending what we're fighting.

Base avoidance is 41.3% with a tower. 45.4% with buckler (due to Gladiator Revenge adding to base.

pagansaint · 08-08-2007, 06:22 PM

Most guardians prefer to get hit more to trigger Inflaming Defense more, better aggro control that way. Not to mention that the additional crit percentage will increase your DPS by varying degrees depending upon what weapon you are using and your crit chance from other items and AAs.

Grind, I believe the values you are getting, parsed out values versus tooltip values, for parry and base avoidance are because your base avoidance is so much higher that when it goes through the contested checks it parses out better.

The 4-8% of your avoidance that is parry could probably be coming almost entirely from those adornments, your non adornment parry being heavily hit by the contested check and I also believe there are a good many of x4 mob attacks that ignore parry, but not entirely sure on that though.

Grind · 08-08-2007, 06:30 PM

So my base parry value of 20-27% parry is completely worthless and only my adornments are doing anything for me.

I'm going to stick with my belief that the adornments/AA add to the tool tip value and are not uncontested.

pagansaint · 08-08-2007, 07:18 PM

Touchy much?

That much parry should be netting you a good bit more avoidance than what you are saying it is parsing you at, adornment modifiers or no, I do not doubt you at all on what you are getting, but it would lend me to believe that parry is more heavily contested somehow, or there is another equation being put into the mix somewhere increasing how many misses the mobs have against you.

That is going off of the numbers you had listed.

UGAdawg · 08-08-2007, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pagansaint

+7 Defense > 2% melee crit ?

Not on a class that self buffs defense, not once, but twice and recieve +10 defense just from their 3-Piece EoF armor set bonus.

If that was +7 parry you may have an arguable case, but in no way should you give up Crit chance for +7 defense on an item with that low of hitpoints and stamina.

\

Who needs more parry? I'm at 470+ parry in a raid setup with only 456 or so defense

Raid-buffed avoidence is at 71.5% atm as well