EQ2 Flames Consolidated Developer Information List - Page 60

Rhoe · 03-12-2008, 06:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobz69

i like your name :D

Thanks! And don't mind Justin. He's just jealous.

As to the others - I did say in my post that it probably wasn't the best way to handle things. But it's been so long ago now that really, does it matter anymore? What does that have to do with anything current? Did the fact that a guild was able to beta test a zone before anyone else cause you any undue stress at the time, even though you didn't know it happened?

I didn't think so.

Once again, it may not have been the best way to handle things, but nobody here really knows what truly happened, do you? All you have is one side of a story - and if any of you are honest you'll admit that more often than not in situations where drama and sensationalism feeds popularity, people will tend to make more out of something than the truth would normally lend itself to.

Irulana · 03-12-2008, 07:01 AM

Just an observation here but to my knowledge all software companies use both alpha and beta testing for program content.

Alpha takes place internally and one would assume that SOE already has a team to do this, dedicated or seconded, made up of SOE staff members.

Beta takes place externally on a dedicated test server with limited release to those registered to that test server. The process is sometimes open test, sometimes restricted to a chosen few, either way it allows a larger user base to check for errors and bugs, report them so that as many of those errors and bugs as possible can be fixed in advance of live release.

Having worked for a software company, I know the above to be true, even for a small company with a turnover of less than 5 million per annum, therefore it is reasonable to assume that a company the size of SOE also uses alpha and beta testing as a minimum (not that you would know since the whole live game is riddled with bugs and errors). Since I assume that at least minimal testing is taken place it is easy to form the following conclusions:

A) SOE alpha testing team test all content, including raid content, prior to beta release.
B) Having carried out Alpha testing the developers should know if there are any major bugs prior to beta release and deal with them accordingly.
C) Having dealt with any major bugs, new content is released into Beta test allowing a larger user base to search out additional bugs from a REAL USER standpoint.
D) SOE gave a group of REAL USERS on beta internal information to allow them to bypass necessary portions of content in order to get to end game content.

A,B and C are standard and acceptable, D however is not and possibly explains why so much of the ROK raid content is screwed up, it simply has not been tested in real player mode adequately.

How would the press and public react if a major financial software provider gave information to a client who carries out beta testing for them information on how to screw the IRS during the testing process, then when the software went live that same client actually used the program to screw the IRS? There would be an outcry.

What we have here is a similar sotuation, only the client is the said raid guild and the IRS is us, the end user, the people who pay SOE to create, improve, extend and maintain "OUR" program, EQ2.

Yes people are pissed that "special" priviledges were granted to a select few in return for "special" favours for a dev but I personally am annoyed because these special priviledges may potentially be one of the cockups which have nullified a necessary part of the testing process leading to a substandard product being released which I pay good money for.

Maybe it is a little below the belt to release dev personal information, but when there is a bad apple in a barrel the only way to find out how many other apple's are tainted is to inspect them all in detail.

Forgive me if I have gone off on a bit of a tangent here but sometimes you just have to vent.

Vent Over.......

Iceband · 03-12-2008, 07:12 AM

Your right about the testing part, the problem is two fold.

1. They chose their "buddies" to test shit for em, and then handed them the I win button to do it with. This completly destroyes two things, the actual testing of the encounter, and the developers integrity.

2. They further prove that the corruption at SOE is without end. They choose the "top" guild in the best to test shit, leaving everyone else out to dry.

Malignx · 03-12-2008, 07:12 AM

People will always cry about testing and how it gets done. The bottom line is, the only perfect solution would have to happen within SOE, not within the community.

SOE simply needs to get people on the QA team that actually give a fuck about this game, that aren't retarded and can get shit done.

Then they need to teach their fucking employees with access to privelaged information the definition of integrity.

Iceband · 03-12-2008, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malignx

People will always cry about testing and how it gets done. The bottom line is, the only perfect solution would have to happen within SOE, not within the community.

SOE simply needs to get people on the QA team that actually give a fuck about this game, that aren't retarded and can get shit done.

Then they need to teach their fucking employees with access to privelaged information the definition of integrity.

What SoE needs to do is fire every fucking person on the dev and QA team, and hire people with a clue and the balls to fix this game right.

Irulana · 03-12-2008, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iceband

2. They further prove that the corruption at SOE is without end. They choose the "top" guild in the best to test shit, leaving everyone else out to dry.

Yeah, and now we all know why they are the top raid guild, hell a bunch of virgin raiders could become the top raid guild if they were the only member the "Strats for Blowjobs" loyalty program.

Leorra · 03-12-2008, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhoe

Okay, there are currently 58 pages of discussion here, and I'm not inclined to read through it all. But I do think I've got the general idea of what's going on here.

SOE revoked someone's access to private company contact information and details that this individual had due to their involvement in a program made up of community members. This revocation was mainly due to that individual not participating in a manner acceptable and/or an abuse of those privileges.

So the response of this member, rather than replying to the notification he received with something along the lines of "I'm sorry" or "Thank you for the opportunity", or even "I no longer agree with what SOE does", is to publically reveal all personal information they can about the dev team as a whole.

And you wonder why you were removed from the Influencer Program. This isn't the first time that this site or the person/people behind it have abused their privileges for their own gain. You want a highly successful website? Well, you've gotten it - regardless of who you had to run roughshod over to get it.

I'm not going to argue the merits of the various points you people are trying to make about raids or items or players or guilds. I have opted not to read through the almost 60 pages of crap that I'm sure to find. Although some of the claims I've seen are being bandied about as truths, when you're only hearing one side of the story. That doesn't make something true... it only makes it supposition and gossip.

It is completely and totally without an ounce of maturity that this thread was begun, and what little respect some people in the development industry may have held for you is now gone. By doing what you've done here, you have forever secured yourself a position of "I will never again..." by anyone in the game development industry. And that is sad.

While I may not agree with this site or many of the actions that go on here, I can honestly say that LFG and EQ2 Flames has more often than not had an impact with these methods. This site is a great place for people to truly express what they feel about changes to the game, and the devs did actually come here and read what you guys had to say.

But with this... this crap... that's all it takes to run the devs off and make this site lose what impact it has previously enjoyed as a result.

You can be angry and frustrated and upset and still maintain some maturity, courtesy and respect in the process. You can make a point without destroying all you've earned from the people you're trying to make the point to, and without destroying those people in the process.

What a waste.

Im sorry but you fail at reading comprehension 101

This thread was not started by anyone affliated with EQ2flames.com

This thread was started after SoE severed ties with EQ2flames.com

The only waste was of my time after reading your post because you ranted with almost no grasp of the situation.

Rhoe · 03-12-2008, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irulana

Maybe it is a little below the belt to release dev personal information, but when there is a bad apple in a barrel the only way to find out how many other apple's are tainted is to inspect them all in detail.

It is a bit below the belt.

Let's say that you're an internal tester, and a regular player of the game. What if you were in-game one night and one of your guild mates found a bug that gave them 120pp every time they typed /sit while on their horse at the bank? And what if they didn't really find it... you did. And you had sent it to the devs to be fixed, and they forgot.

And you uttered that in vent with your guild listening, thus causing them to get all sorts of uptight with you for screwing them out of something you could've avoided?

So to pay you back, they post your name, telephone number, email address and home mailing address, along with the names of your wife and kids on this very public forum where your "misdeed" was also laid out in detail - how you screwed the entire guild because you didn't tell them about this bug and allow them to take advantage for a bit first?

Would that be just "a little below the belt..." and would you be okay with the "but when there's a bad apple..." comment?

Nobody is perfect, but to take the steps of outing everyone on the dev team they can, let alone just the individuals that someone thinks is "dirty", is beyond below the belt. It's without honor, integrity, dignity, or maturity. This is just my opinion, of course, but if the tables were turned and you had made an error in judgment, would you appreciate this type of lashback?

Iceband · 03-12-2008, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhoe

Thanks! And don't mind Justin. He's just jealous.

As to the others - I did say in my post that it probably wasn't the best way to handle things. But it's been so long ago now that really, does it matter anymore? What does that have to do with anything current? Did the fact that a guild was able to beta test a zone before anyone else cause you any undue stress at the time, even though you didn't know it happened?

I didn't think so.

Once again, it may not have been the best way to handle things, but nobody here really knows what truly happened, do you? All you have is one side of a story - and if any of you are honest you'll admit that more often than not in situations where drama and sensationalism feeds popularity, people will tend to make more out of something than the truth would normally lend itself to.

The reason there is only 1 side of this story is because the devs dont give enough of a fuck to explain their actions, as usual.

It's just like politics, if I ever saw a political figure come out and be honest, I would vote for him in friggen heartbeat.

See, your trying to dilute the issue by pointing out that theres only 1 side to the story, so its just a rumor mill, in this case its not.

Do me a favor, dont post this shit anymore. Your trying to defend Sony's actions, when Im sorry to say it, they brought it unto themselves.

If the Dev team and SOE in general were more supportive of the player base, in not just EQ2 but all of their games they would be 10x more popular than they are now. The fact that this website has grown to the popularity it has is a testament that their method of censorship and denial is what is making SoE out to be a bad buisness is what the point is. SoE used this as an excuse to sever ties with a community that gives honest feedback, so honest they cant handle it.

/rant off.

Slix · 03-12-2008, 07:35 AM

Well folks what we have here is called a "Witch Hunt" I mean if it was possible to host files, vids and audio tapes of vent etc on all these accuations to prove these flames wrong it wouldnt matter...why because no one on these forums cares...your gonna beleive what you want to wether or not proof is there.

All you can do is sit here and feel empowered that the words you type here will actually impact or effect someones life or the game in some profound way and guess what...your wrong and it wont. No ones cares what you "THINK" happened or what you "THINK" goes on I mean why would NPU come here and try to post any proof or statements about all the things you accuse them of...I mean why would we bother taking 5 steps down the maturity ladder to your levels. Why would any of us care or lose sleep over what some anon kid playing some game has to say...honestly...grow up.

Dont like EQ2 fine quit and spare us all the headache, want to get the games flaws fixed so you and others will enjoy it more...fine be mature and constructive with the devs. Flaming all day here is doing nothing to help yourself or the game...enjoy your witch hunt.