EQ2 Flames Consolidated Developer Information List - Page 63

Rhoe · 03-12-2008, 08:48 AM

Okay, first, I'll post in white for Gori. (It's not a matter of being "different", but I use green text everywhere... have for years).

I didn't say that LFG should have a ruleset for everything... but even the most intellectually challenged individual can see from the beginning that a forum like this could very possibly have people who want to shit on the devs. Hell, it's more likely than just possibly. Regardless, the lack of a rule is not at issue here. The action that brought up a discussion of possibly needing a rule did.

Tristen, I never said you didn't have a right to a refund. I simply stated that you feel you're owed one. Also, in-game character information shared with members of your guild or people who you call friends... yes, shame on the devs for doing so, but regardless, does that clear the OP of all responsibility? Or those that are forwarding the information they know about devs for the OP to update his/her list? I don't think so.

As I've said before, I'm not debating what occurred to cause the drama. I don't know what exactly happened other than what I've been told here or have read on my own (again, I don't want to go through every post in this conversation). But the posting of personal information about the devs is just wrong.

I once had a situation with the former employer of someone from my staff at the time, an issue involving proprietary information. After a telephone call with this individual in which he was abusive and obnoxious, and I had choice things to say about him to him, he opted to publish my personal information to his community - along with details of my full name and where I lived that he was able to acquire or that I had given him through the normal course of business.

Because he was angry at me, did he do the right thing in publishing my personal information on his website?

The same thing is happnening here, only more people than just the one or two that seem to be at issue here are being drawn in. Some of these devs have nothing to do with the situation and yet their information remains. And those that are involved... results are better achieved through mature handling of situations than nonsense like this.

At least in my high-horsed opinion.

The Human Torch · 03-12-2008, 09:21 AM

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Originally Posted by tiredofthebs

Quit bitching and do something about it. If you dont wanna quit, form a class action lawsuit based on the fact we all pay sony for a game that we cant play to its fullest potential because of the way they let their employees behave. Hit em where it hurts, at least become a thorn in thier side.

I personally would love to join in on that and could bring a lot to the table for it.

I am sure some of you have some ignorant replies to this post so let the games begin! Let's see what ya got.

This isn't the first time I have seen this in this thread, so we may as well cut off this line of ignorance before it picks up steam. While i know everyone likes free money, you can't just sue someone everytime you get your feelings hurt.

First, you only pay for a license to play the game, SoE owns the game and all intellectual property rights, etc. that go along with it. Therefore, you are bound by the EULA that you accept every time you log on in terms of what "rights" you have under your license. If you do not wish to be bound by the EULA, you don't have to play the game, SoE explicitly tells you what you should do in such an event. If you are ever unhappy with the service, you can cancel your license at any time. SoE can run the game however they see fit, and there's nothing you can do about it. If they decide to "test" the game in the manner they did, they can, because they own it. They have done nothing wrong from a legal standpoint.

Second, Since you merely have a license, you don't own anything on the game. You don't own your characters, the items, or anything else. You explicitly agree that no items or goods you possess in game have any value in the first bold paragraph. Thus, if you tried to sue SoE, you would have no damages. You are also never going to be able to get punitive damages from a company for making your video game experience less enjoyable. You have no damages, so you have nothing to sue for.

Third, depending on which state you live in, you may have waived liability altogether under Paragraph 14, or otherwise limited it to $100. If that's the case, you have no claim or one that isn't worth pursuing.

Fourth, you have agreed to arbitration of any formal disputes in 17(b)(1). You have also agreed to pay for said arbitration in the same paragraph. It will probably cost you more to go through arbitration than you would ever recover for damages that do not exist in accordance with a video game you only have a license to play. You would also have to go it alone, as you waive class-action arbitration in 17(b)(2). Were you to find away around these clauses, you have also submitted yourself to personal jurisdiction for any claim you might want to bring in California. Unless you live within an hour or two, if you ever had to go there, for any reason, in connection with the lawsuit, it would cost you more just to get there than you would ever recover.

Summary: You have no reason to sue, because you have not been damaged, because you don't own anything of value. You have also agreed not to sue. You have also had the option of quitting the game at any time if you were ever dissatisfied for any reason. SoE will have better lawyers than you, and you will lose should you ever go to court despite the many promises and waivers you undertook that said you could not or would not sue. SoE doesn't owe you or anyone else who plays the game anything more than to let you play the game, however they should decide to design or conduct it, as long as you pay the fee.

Gori · 03-12-2008, 09:22 AM

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Originally Posted by Rhoe

Okay, first, I'll post in white for Gori.

Thank you. Much better.

Irulana · 03-12-2008, 09:25 AM

You do realise of course that none of this will make the slightest bit of difference anyway no matter how it's dealt with, in a "mature" way (would love to know how this could have been dealt with differently without rolling over and just taking it) or kicking and screaming for a security blanket and a pony.

Personal and business email addresses will have already been changed, as will many of the devs in-game character names and no doubt if any of the other peronal information is used in a way which could be considered abusive or intrusive then the appropriate actions will be taken by the appropriate authority.

As far as the posting of dev personal and in game info is concerned then I have to say that I do agree that it is unfortunate that some devs with no involvement with the issues at hand have been dragged into this mess.

However I also feel that informing other players of your in-game info as a dev is not just unwise but down right stupid, what would it achieve? Why would any dev do that? I cannot think of a single good reason why but I can certainly think of a few bad ones.

There will always be drama and that drama will always most likely be outed here at EQ2flames because it has more "active" members than any other fan site and it's EQ2flames GDI, not frellin carebear corner, we don't expect people to play nice or cosy up with each other in an effort to fit in or be popular, hell if we wanted that kind of lobotomised community we'd all post on the official forums instead.

Peeps here call a spade a fucking shovel and rightly so, No one wants to have to read between the lines for the real story, we want it in all it's full frontal uglyness, no holds barred, from the hip with both barrels.

LFG · 03-12-2008, 09:42 AM

I've read repeated false accusations that I've posted private information.

That simply isn't true. I've not posted any private information about anyone. I'll I've done is stopped deleting certain information from this site after it has been posted by other users.

Each one of those devs is listed because they have disclosed their player information to another player. Then those other players provided that information to Snark, and he posted it here. I didn't do that, it isn't my fault, and I have no obligation to prevent anyone from harming themselves by providing their private player information to another player. I also have no obligation to prevent Snark from posting that information on this site after he has received it through legitimate means. I did not provide any of that information to Snark, and the truth is, I didn't know the vast majority of it myself.

The email and name information is publicly available through SOE. None of this is "private" information, in that all of it has been voluntarily disclosed by the SOE employees involved, and it has been compiled by Snark and matched up with information publicly available from SOE.

To say that I've published "private" information on this site would be like posting information from the Yellow Pages and saying that was private information. It is not. I am totally clean in this situation.

No violation of the Site Rules has occurred by this information being posted, except the Site Rule I created two days ago initially as a special situation to handle the situation after Aeralik's player name was posted by Tangarth. That Rule has now been rescinded, based on site policy about new rules generally requiring approval by user votes. I tried to help Aeralik out, he went off on me, and this is the situation that resulted because of that.

I can't hold back this tidal wave. If this information wasn't posted here, it would have been posted elsewhere on the Internet.

Illuminator · 03-12-2008, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhoe

Actually, isn't it possible that this dev had permission to ask his/her guild to help test a zone?

Are you a fucking space cadet? Do you think the basic issue would have changed if the CEO Himself of parent Sony came down and blessed it with holy water?

Rhoe · 03-12-2008, 09:59 AM

LFG - I've never said you published anything. It's here, that's that. Your name isn't attached to the original post in this thread. So yes, in that respect, you are clean. But you are not wholly innocent in everything, either. (But then, who of us here is?)

Illuminator, just because you don't think it's probable (most people won't, for that matter) doesn't make it impossible. Space cadet? No, don't think so. Prefer to get both sides of a story before going off on these wild witch hunts? Yup, that'd be me.

The point was that people are pointing fingers and making accusations without knowing the enitre story. Maybe the dev was instructed to do so? Maybe it was a team decision? Whatever the reason behind it - while it may not sit well with most or all of you - it is possible that this particular situation wasn't underhanded, sneaky, etc.

Yes, I'm speculating. But then, so are the rest of you. Only difference is my speclation isn't all about dirty possibilities.

AdaM pErSOn · 03-12-2008, 10:06 AM

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Originally Posted by Rhoe

Tell me where I said this thread was started by someone affiliated by EQ2Flames?!?

And omg, someone actually took the time to search out an old photo of me? Amazing just how ridiculous you people can be. And I'm so glad that you think I'll work as "sick medical photo", considering I am ill... medically disabled, as a matter of fact.

Don't you just feel all warm and fuzzy about that now?

No, I feel the same. Revolted, yet can't look away at your jagged teeth.

Mazim · 03-12-2008, 10:12 AM

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and it will have a negative impact on someone's life... that is wrong on so many levels regardless of the reasoning behind it.

Kinda like screwing over other WW1st raid guilds??

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And correct me if I'm wrong, but two wrongs don't make a right, do they?

Like devs in WW1st guilds, and giving info?

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and this community is hurting people who don't even have anything to do what this.

Why is the biggest eq2 community getting screwed for whatever LFG did or didnt do?

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It is a bit below the belt.

Id say so!

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Nobody is perfect, but to take the steps of outing everyone on the dev team they can, let alone just the individuals that someone thinks is "dirty", is beyond below the belt. It's without honor, integrity, dignity, or maturity. This is just my opinion, of course, but if the tables were turned and you had made an error in judgment, would you appreciate this type of lashback?

Again see the issue with top raid guilds, as well as outing the whole eq2flames community.

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Focus on the ones you're upset with, not everyone just because you can.

LFG?

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Once again, it may not have been the best way to handle things, but nobody here really knows what truly happened, do you? All you have is one side of a story - and if any of you are honest you'll admit that more often than not in situations where drama and sensationalism feeds popularity, people will tend to make more out of something than the truth would normally lend itself to.

Ill use your style of debating. What if Sony raped LFG as a small baby then killed his mother? Would you still be on their cock?

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You can be angry and frustrated and upset and still maintain some maturity, courtesy and respect in the process. You can make a point without destroying all you've earned from the people you're trying to make the point to, and without destroying those people in the process.

Read the post and use your judgement on this one.

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Yes, I'm speculating. But then, so are the rest of you. Only difference is my speclation isn't all about dirty possibilities.

NPU's as well as SOEs silence is proof enough. The community of this site deserves at the very least an explanation of these actions as well as an apology from SOE.

Uyaem · 03-12-2008, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFG

I also have no obligation to prevent Snark from posting that information on this site after he has received it through legitimate means. I did not provide any of that information to Snark, and the truth is, I didn't know the vast majority of it myself.

You should feel the moral obligation to intervene where people who were intrusted with this confidential information have failed.
There is still a long way from "some people knowing" to "information in the yellow pages".

I do not agree with the plan of cutting EQ2Flames and you out of the loop, but if you had any intention of fixing things, you could not have let this happen. I realize you are hurt personally, but going "all out" is and was a mistake, like a foolish vendetta of a kid that was sent to bed early by his parents.
What made this site great is not only the ramblings of the raiding community but also the knowledge that was brought and shared. Putting myself into the position of an SoE employee, especially as one of those on the list who did not have anything to with the reasons behind Grimwell's letter, I could not see any motivation why I'd still want to trust anyone here and why I'd want to partake in threads and this community.

While I enjoy EQ2Flames for everything it offers, Snark's thread (whatever intentions he had) made me frown. Drama is all fun and that, but there has to be limits. They acted like jerks? Fine, no need for you to become one.
Shame on all the mudslingers that are in only for revenge.

My 2cp, after sleeping over it.