LFG, Born-Again Christian - Page 25

Illuminator · 10-03-2008, 06:22 PM

Many if not most religions have provided for a Day of Reckoning where direct divine intervention resumes, before any of their founders even knew of things like black holes.

Diaphanous · 10-03-2008, 06:31 PM

You're getting into cosmology there, Illuminator: spirituality and science combined to suss out the reason for the universe. It's seriously interesting stuff even if like me you don't have a religious bone in your body.

Neolithic people perfectly understood the geometric mathematical laws of the universe and demonstrated them thus:

It's termed 'perennial wisdom'.

Exel1 · 10-03-2008, 09:06 PM

i still agree with the guy that said if God was real there would be no STD's!

Mordenkainaen · 10-04-2008, 12:54 AM

Somewhere several pages back, this was mentioned:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoss

But how was anyone supposed to write anything before there was a written language? What are the oldest written texts we have? Moses started writing the old testament as soon as God told him to, IIRC, and if it weren't for religion, I'm not sure we'd have much of a written language at all.

Moses' writings were not the first instances of a written language. Although religious texts are often used to promote literacy, literacy did not stem from the creation of religious texts.

I think Gori got it right:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gori

I believe Sanskit or Cuneform are the oldest non-hieroglyphic languages, though someone would have to confirm that.

The Sumerian's Cuneiform script is generally considered to be the first full/complete/true writing form, and dates back to sometime between 4,000 BCE and 2,500 BCE (I think). Our earliest examples of writing generally include documents that are not very interesting - inventory and livestock counts, financial transaction records, etc. IIRC the earliest chunk of text that was not accounting records is the law code of Hammurabi - which is written in Cuneiform, and predates any text Moses & Co. could have written by a few thousand years.

There are earlier examples of proto-writings - pictographs come to mind - but linguists and historians generally don't consider them to be true writing systems like we have today. I can't exactly remember the reason why though.

So, thank your accountant, because their ancient predecessors were responsible for creating written language as we know it. Good thing they kept track of their livestock, eh?

Anyways, return to your flames.

methulah · 10-04-2008, 05:56 AM

Now, I'm a philosophy major, and to prove to you all that you suck at debating about God, I thought about preparing a big ol' list of the arguments for and against its existence. Then I really couldn't be fucked.

But the arguments do exist, and logically and analytically speaking, they are resolved in favor of atheism. So, it's fine to have faith and believe in God through that. But if you're going to believe in something with no tangible reason for that belief, don't be surprised when people question you.

Obijon Kenobi · 10-04-2008, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illuminator

Now, what if there were a God who rigged and triggered such a Big Bang with full predetermination as to how the atoms would arrange themselves through physical laws, to evolve life and worlds and brain chemistry to respond accordingly to every situation of faith when that time arrived? This would provide a perfect union of religion and science, and because the physical laws remained in place the whole time, it would still give humans a way to shape and respond to their surroundings in non-random ways.

That sounds an awful lot like intelligent design theory...and it makes a hell of a lot more sense than "There was a big ol' 'splosion, see..." The whole "Big bang" theory, if you look at it carefully, sounds like something made up by some pot smoking pseudo intellectual trying to rationalize a universe without God. And really, is believing in the "Big Bang" any more of an enlightened stance than believing in God? There's really no more "Proof" of the big bang than there is "Proof" of God...merely speculation based upon the meager data that we've managed to glean from our miniscule corner of the universe.

Now if you (Note, I use "you" in a generic sense here...not directing my comments to anyone specific) subscribe to an agnostic or atheist view, that's fine, nobody can make you believe anything. That's why mankind's relationship with the Divine must be a uniquely personal thing...I hold to my convictions, but I also understand that they're mine, not yours. I suppose what really baffles me about society is that my belief in God will result in mockery by many who suppose they are wiser or more informed...and yet, their position is no more easily proven than mine.

Really, we're all just fumbling around in the dark. Our finite minds can't possibly grasp an infinite universe. Some see a light (or, others would argue, THINK they see a light) and choose to follow it. Others trust their own fumbling, trusting in their own wisdom. Who's right? Only time will tell...but for me personally, the thought of life without God, and ultimately without purpose, is incredibly depressing.

Diaphanous · 10-04-2008, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obijon Kenobi

That sounds an awful lot like intelligent design theory...and it makes a hell of a lot more sense than "There was a big ol' 'splosion, see..." The whole "Big bang" theory, if you look at it carefully, sounds like something made up by some pot smoking pseudo intellectual trying to rationalize a universe without God. And really, is believing in the "Big Bang" any more of an enlightened stance than believing in God? There's really no more "Proof" of the big bang than there is "Proof" of God...merely speculation based upon the meager data that we've managed to glean from our miniscule corner of the universe.

Now if you (Note, I use "you" in a generic sense here...not directing my comments to anyone specific) subscribe to an agnostic or atheist view, that's fine, nobody can make you believe anything. That's why mankind's relationship with the Divine must be a uniquely personal thing...I hold to my convictions, but I also understand that they're mine, not yours. I suppose what really baffles me about society is that my belief in God will result in mockery by many who suppose they are wiser or more informed...and yet, their position is no more easily proven than mine.

Really, we're all just fumbling around in the dark. Our finite minds can't possibly grasp an infinite universe. Some see a light (or, others would argue, THINK they see a light) and choose to follow it. Others trust their own fumbling, trusting in their own wisdom. Who's right? Only time will tell...but for me personally, the thought of life without God, and ultimately without purpose, is incredibly depressing.

I really enjoyed reading this but I do have a niggling question to ask: what is our purpose?

methulah · 10-04-2008, 07:04 AM

No-one cares. Obijon Kenobi is not exactly correct, in... uh, anything.

Diaphanous · 10-04-2008, 08:30 AM

Well Intelligent Design was disproven soundly by science and the physical laws to do with black holes I already mentioned. But other than and the idea of humans having a purpose in life that he seems quite correct to me.

Obijon Kenobi · 10-04-2008, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by methulah

No-one cares. Obijon Kenobi is not exactly correct, in... uh, anything.

That's quite an insightful response from a philosophy major.